[michmoldman]

Originally Posted by darstar

We had that same saying in Florida , when all the Cubans came in in the 70s and 80s. Miami was very hard hit , lifestyle changed. A lot of Michiganders moved back north.........part way , to NC. They are now called half backs.
The exodus from Florida is still going on , most could not stand the heat and humidity. I was one of them.
The real changes in Michigan were when all the people from the Mid-South and West VA. came up to work in the car factories. They brought all their trash with them......

So basically were just unloading some trash? (no offense to anyone)

[darstar]

Originally Posted by michmoldman

So basically were just unloading some trash? (no offense to anyone)

Could be......... ( also no offense ) , but , from my experiences , Michigan has more hillbillies than Kentucky . I rarely saw the trash in the South like I have seen in South Michigan. Interesting as well , wherever there are hills , streams , lakes , in MI. you don't have to look far , and see the trailers , the trash , the cars up on blocks , and the washing machines/ refrigerators in the front yard.
Just my observation , of living in South Michigan , from Detroit all the way to the Lake Michigan shore. Things change , when you go North , the fther you go , the better it gets.......... Also strange , here in the UP , a lot of poor folks , but , they seem to have pride in their surroundings.....

[wanderer74]

Originally Posted by magellan

I think it's a state of mind. If you're educated, and in a rapidly growing economy, and unemployed (or unemployable), you feel like it's just you and you need to work harder finding a job. If you're educated, and in a stagnant economy, and unemployed, you're just stewing and trying to blame everyone for your troubles (including the Governor, or a union that you don't even work for). Haha! As if the Governor has much to do with individual jobs (except for the guys fixing roads).

While I do grasp your point - and agree that the Governor has little to do with individual jobs - it is still a fact that Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the nation, and many college educated people find it difficult to find full-time work here. Among many of my other fellow students in my college graduating class, those of us who are still in MI and are working are usually working part-time, which makes it very hard to get by. I would think that whether or not you know a lot of people who have moved out of MI largely depends on your circle of friends and family. Among my family, only one cousin and myself moved out of state (I moved back, but it was a mistake as our standard of living took a huge nosedive and never recovered)...but among my high school and college classmates, I would estimate that the number who have moved away is at least 30 percent. When I talk to older adults I work with, the majority of their children (who are in their 20s and 30s) are in other states for work as well. So no, there may not be a mass exodus of people leaving MI and likely never will be, but for those of us who left for work or are considering doing so, the MI job market is more than just a "state of mind".

[michiganbob]

Originally Posted by Giesela

It seems like there are a lot of threads here about how "everybody is leaving". Maybe the media is portraying that but I haven't seen any real sources for it. Yesterday in an MSNBC article they said California was the leading state with population leaving followed by another state I can't remember but not Michigan. So is everyone really leaving? How bout people post any actual stastical evidence they find?

The population of Michigan in 2008 was listed at this site
Michigan - Population Finder - American FactFinder
10,003,442
9, 928,444

Similar to here.

Population by State, 1790 to 2007 — Infoplease.com

So seems pretty static, which I would guess that some people are leaving and some people are moving back.

Your numbers are a bit misleading as they only compare 2000 to 2008. As I recall, things were still looking up in 1999 and 2000 and didn't start taking a real dive here until 2004-2005.

According to a more recent report from the Census Bureau, Michigan is one of only two states losing population and has actually lost population each of the last three years. Can't find the original press release right now, but this excerpt comes from the Livingston Daily:

People are leaving Michigan for the same reason that thousands once came here: work. The population that's hanging in is relatively older, meaning fewer children are being born in Michigan than in other states.

The Census Bureau statistics released in December shows Michigan is just 3,423 people away from dropping below 10 million in population, but is unlikely to lose its eighth-place ranking among the states, although Georgia, New Jersey and North Carolina are pressing to move up.

State demographers say they actually expected a larger population drop, but Michigan's out-migration appears to have slowed because of difficulty selling houses. Also, with the national economy in recession, there really isn't a "hot" job market anywhere in the country these days, unlike in Michigan's heyday, when factories were hiring as fast as people could apply.

2008 marks the third year running Michigan has lost people, although the state population remains higher than the 9,938,444 recorded in the 2000 census.

On the upside, this means a little less traffic, a little less competition for whatever jobs are available, and less expansion needed of roads, schools and businesses.

On the downside, the state is very likely to lose another seat in Congress, and that means less clout in Washington, which generally pays more attention to growing areas anyway.

So, by comparison, there are actually about the same number of residents here as there were 9 years ago, we are steadily losing population from our peak three or four years ago. This, in turn, will result in a loss of congressional seats (likely after the 2010 Census) which will likely result in the loss of Federal money.

We also have the problem of having had a number of new homes built all over the state between 2003-2007 at the same time few have fewer families. While all real estate is local, the general trend seems to be that there will be more houses than homeowners for some time to come.

And yes, both of my kids had to leave the State to find jobs after graduating college. (They did try to find ones here in Michigan.)

So no, not everyone is leaving, but the sense that most of us feel of friends and neighbors moving away in greater numbers appears to be true.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by wanderer74

While I do grasp your point - and agree that the Governor has little to do with individual jobs - it is still a fact that Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the nation, and many college educated people find it difficult to find full-time work here. Among many of my other fellow students in my college graduating class, those of us who are still in MI and are working are usually working part-time, which makes it very hard to get by. I would think that whether or not you know a lot of people who have moved out of MI largely depends on your circle of friends and family. Among my family, only one cousin and myself moved out of state (I moved back, but it was a mistake as our standard of living took a huge nosedive and never recovered)...but among my high school and college classmates, I would estimate that the number who have moved away is at least 30 percent. When I talk to older adults I work with, the majority of their children (who are in their 20s and 30s) are in other states for work as well. So no, there may not be a mass exodus of people leaving MI and likely never will be, but for those of us who left for work or are considering doing so, the MI job market is more than just a "state of mind".

I wasn't saying that the job market in Michigan is just a "state of mind". I was directly replying to the earlier post. That's why I quoted it.

[Giesela]

Driller - I don't know what your insinuating but I don't like it. I've only posted under this name.

I moved but plan to move back (currently in Oh). My nephew and girlfriend moved but have moved back and just had a baby. Small data points.

So to summarize.... It seems that "new" population growth via births and new residents is slightly surpassing people leaving?

[Giesela]

Quote from Michigan Bob "According to a more recent report from the Census Bureau, Michigan is one of only two states losing population and has actually lost population each of the last three years."

I'd feel better if you could find that because I thought the census was only taken every 10 years? And it seems to me that half the rust belt states, CA etc. out there are reporting similar stories.
I'm not saying its not true but I like to see things for myself.
As for traffic - I left in Jan 2004 and have noticed definately more traffic on I-94 on visits home, Battle Creek seems to have expanded and had a traffic increase around the Lakeview mall.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by Giesela

Driller - I don't know what your insinuating but I don't like it. I've only posted under this name.

Don't believe Driller1 was talking about you at all. We have had a poster on the Michigan forum that keeps getting banned and showing back up under different names for a long time (I would guess 20 is a very conservative number actually). Sometimes they will log on under a couple of different names to "reply" to them self in the same thread. They are always saying how nasty and horrible Michigan is and how people are leaving by the boat load with 3/4 of the homes for sale and no jobs at all.

I have a hard time thinking she was referring to your posts at all.

[Cliffie]

Here are some stat with a nice graph to show who's leaving and who's staying:

Census shows more leaving Michigan than arriving, with a few exceptions - Latest News - The Grand Rapids Press - MLive.com

As you can see there are more counties losing population than gaining, but the change isn't that huge. I heard on NPR one day that 100 people/day were leaving the state, but I didn't catch the source. And that could have been some abnormal spike they were talking about.

I know 3 households who left, all in order to find jobs. I know several others who are piling into parents' or grandparents' houses to stay because they can't find work and can't afford to leave, in one case 5 families in a single household. I wonder how many of those are out there?

[Driller1]

Originally Posted by Bydand

Don't believe Driller1 was talking about you at all. We have had a poster on the Michigan forum that keeps getting banned and showing back up under different names for a long time (I would guess 20 is a very conservative number actually). Sometimes they will log on under a couple of different names to "reply" to them self in the same thread. They are always saying how nasty and horrible Michigan is and how people are leaving by the boat load with 3/4 of the homes for sale and no jobs at all.

I have a hard time thinking she was referring to your posts at all.

You are right!!!! He has four screen names showing now.