[magellan]

Lansing has a lot of wasted highways, in my opinion. All that talk about building a Northern bypass to connect I-96 with I-69 headed to Flint when I was growing up (in the 80's) and I still hardly see any cars on that highway when I'm on it (what 20 years later?).

Hopefully Lansing has gotten the clue that we don't need any more new highways to maintain for quite a while.

[Flapjac583]

Ya, that northern route you speak of isn't used alot, but there is alot of truck traffic once you reach 127 headed to/from Flint/Canada. The good thing about the northern extension is that is keeps the heavy trucks off the local roads and routes and keeps them moving through the area connecting them where they need to go. The roads aren't a waste, it is just a cross roads between major expressways that lead to other parts of the state and country. Lansing just happens to be where they meet. The city does not control their use with the exception of where they actually go through the city limits, the rest is county/state

[magellan]

MDOT has a page where you can look at daily traffic counts. That Northern Lansing extension gets about 30,000 cars/day, which is pretty weak for a 4 lane highway considering the $Hundreds of millions to build it. If it were a mass transit line, people would be crying that it's a boondoggle. Don't get me wrong, I'm not just picking on Lansing. I think the South Beltline in Grand Rapids was a waste of a half a billion dollars too.

Here's Lansing's:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/lansing_19665_7.pdf

And Grand Rapids' and Detroit's for you traffic junkies:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/grandrap_19648_7.pdf

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/detmetro_19640_7.pdf

[GRRAZO]

Think of all the truck traffic its keeping off other roads, if you have ever noticed that northern section carries a lot of trucks on it and many have ontario plates. NAFTA is to blame for that and there are talks of creating a super "NAFTA highway" following 69 all the way from port huron to the mexican border in texas. This would be like 10 lanes wide in each direction and carry major cargo rail lines and commuter rail lines along or in the middle.

About the original post. Lansing is more of a crossroads and also carries more out of town and out of state traffic although the volumes may be lower the infastructure is there for expansion if needed in the future and as mentioned as of now it is mostly narrow 2 lane highways, one section that should definatly be widened is the 127/496 shared section.

The city roads are also wider. This is in part because there are one ways in lansing probably at one point two way roads. GR does not have any major one ways and none outside of downtown, also has pretty narrow roads for the size of the city, the major road being 28th street and is only 2 lanes in each direction. Most smaller towns aroudn the country tend to have more roads that are at least 3 lanes in each direction. going from 2 to 3 lanes some may argue that creates more traffic which i dont agree with but are easier to navigate.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by GRRAZO

Think of all the truck traffic its keeping off other roads, if you have ever noticed that northern section carries a lot of trucks on it and many have ontario plates. NAFTA is to blame for that and there are talks of creating a super "NAFTA highway" following 69 all the way from port huron to the mexican border in texas. This would be like 10 lanes wide in each direction and carry major cargo rail lines and commuter rail lines along or in the middle.

About the original post. Lansing is more of a crossroads and also carries more out of town and out of state traffic although the volumes may be lower the infastructure is there for expansion if needed in the future and as mentioned as of now it is mostly narrow 2 lane highways, one section that should definatly be widened is the 127/496 shared section.

The city roads are also wider. This is in part because there are one ways in lansing probably at one point two way roads. GR does not have any major one ways and none outside of downtown, also has pretty narrow roads for the size of the city, the major road being 28th street and is only 2 lanes in each direction. Most smaller towns aroudn the country tend to have more roads that are at least 3 lanes in each direction. going from 2 to 3 lanes some may argue that creates more traffic which i dont agree with but are easier to navigate.

Just a few questions:

How many fewer trucks travel on I-496 since the Northern bypass in Lansing was constructed?
How many trucks travel on the Northern bypass a day, period?
How many lanes is Rivertown Parkway in Grand Rapids?
How many 5 lane roads (with left turn lanes) are there in Grand Rapids, other than 28th Street? (28th St carries about 30,000 cars/day. The East Beltline carries almost double that, so I wouldn't call 28th the only major thoroughfare)
How many cars travel on 127/496, and how much traffic per day is required before MDOT considers going from 4 lanes to 6 lanes?
How many trucking companies are going out of business in Michigan due to the decline of manufacturing? How wise is planning for "future growth" with highway construction in Michigan right now?

And finally, how many blocks of homes and businesses were destroyed in Lansing to create its ridiculously wide one way streets (Saginaw, Oakland, Grand River, Cedar Larch, sections of Logan/MLK)?

[michigan83]

MDOT has a page where you can look at daily traffic counts. That Northern Lansing extension gets about 30,000 cars/day, which is pretty weak for a 4 lane highway considering the $Hundreds of millions to build it. If it were a mass transit line, people would be crying that it's a boondoggle. Don't get me wrong, I'm not just picking on Lansing. I think the South Beltline in Grand Rapids was a waste of a half a billion dollars too.

That northern extension of I-69 makes it a lot easier to drive from Grand Rapids to Flint. You'd almost have to take M-21 without it. That doesn't necessarily justify the expense of the highway, but it's great for anyone making that trip.

[allbusiness]

One of the reasons the roads nearer the lakeshore are a lot worse than inland is that the roads inland, once frozen, tend to stay frozen for the winter. The lakeshore areas tend to have wilder, Lake Michigan-induced thaws that cause the roads to freeze/thaw/freeze, creating potholes and heaving.

I've also discovered that the roads in the UP are in much better shape (even in "metro" areas like Marquette), because they stay frozen until they thaw in the spring and don't go through the on-again, off-again freeze.

This was especially bad in the winter of 07-08, but the big Christmas thaw of 2008 wreaked havoc this year too.