[michigan83]

Just a random thought here.

Has anyone noticed how much better the road system is in Lansing than Grand Rapids? Not talking about how smooth the pavement is, just the amount of freeways, travel lanes, etc. Considering that Lansing is quite a bit smaller, it seems like it was set up for a lot more traffic. All of the major arteries through downtown are three lanes in each direction. There are freeways on the north, south, east and west, as well as right through downtown.

Grand Rapids, on the other hand, feels like a city of 200,000 using a road system designed for 100,000. The new south beltline helped a lot, but it still leaves a lot to be desired. The whole I-96/I-196/East Beltline/Fulton St. Interchange is one of the worst things I've ever seen. There are a couple of goofy interchanges on I-196 on the west side of town too. Other than the freeways, there's not really a good way to go through downtown in either direction.

So, I guess my point is that the road system in Grand Rapids is a mess.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by michigan83

Just a random thought here.

Has anyone noticed how much better the road system is in Lansing than Grand Rapids? Not talking about how smooth the pavement is, just the amount of freeways, travel lanes, etc. Considering that Lansing is quite a bit smaller, it seems like it was set up for a lot more traffic. All of the major arteries through downtown are three lanes in each direction. There are freeways on the north, south, east and west, as well as right through downtown.

Grand Rapids, on the other hand, feels like a city of 200,000 using a road system designed for 100,000. The new south beltline helped a lot, but it still leaves a lot to be desired. The whole I-96/I-196/East Beltline/Fulton St. Interchange is one of the worst things I've ever seen. There are a couple of goofy interchanges on I-196 on the west side of town too. Other than the freeways, there's not really a good way to go through downtown in either direction.

So, I guess my point is that the road system in Grand Rapids is a mess.

US-131 through Grand Rapids is much larger and carries a lot more capacity than I-496 in Lansing. Last time I was in Lansing a month or so ago, 496 was only two lanes in each direction, except in the Cedar St area where this a weave/merge section. 131 is at least 3 lanes in each direction from 76th Street on the far South end all the way to the I-96 interchange on the North end, and 4 lanes in each direction right downtown at the s-curve.

Granted, I-196 in GR is a mess and is old and narrow, but they're getting ready to expand it from the East Beltline into downtown (you may have noticed the bridge work going on). There were MDOT open houses about reworking the I-96/I-196/Beltline interchange that I went to last year.

As far as highways looping Lansing, they can keep em. They only contribute to sprawl and just give us more roads to maintain with a shrinking state budget. But I think they have them because legislators in Lansing wanted them.

[Kew527]

I live in Lansing and can tell you that the majority of our highways are 2 lanes in both directions. There are only 2 small areas that I can think of that are 3 lanes. One is I-496 near 127 (like the previous person said) and also on I-96 near W. Saginaw, there is a couple mile stretch with 3 lanes in both directions. Other than that though, I can't think of any other areas at this time.

[michigan83]

I was including the actual streets downtown, too - Cedar and Larch, Saginaw and Oakland, etc. They are three lanes in each direction

[suydam]

Originally Posted by michigan83

I was including the actual streets downtown, too - Cedar and Larch, Saginaw and Oakland, etc. They are three lanes in each direction

Do they need to be 3 lanes in each direction?

Are there roads in Grand Rapids that are too busy at their current width and need to be widened?

I'm struggling to see your point other than "Lansing's streets are wider"

[michigan83]

No, they probably don't need to be 3 lanes in each direction.

I was just making an observation - Lansing is smaller than Grand Rapids and has more traffic capacity. Just an interesting observation to me, that's all.

[cbmsu01]

Originally Posted by magellan

US-131 through Grand Rapids is much larger and carries a lot more capacity than I-496 in Lansing. Last time I was in Lansing a month or so ago, 496 was only two lanes in each direction, except in the Cedar St area where this a weave/merge section. 131 is at least 3 lanes in each direction from 76th Street on the far South end all the way to the I-96 interchange on the North end, and 4 lanes in each direction right downtown at the s-curve.

Granted, I-196 in GR is a mess and is old and narrow, but they're getting ready to expand it from the East Beltline into downtown (you may have noticed the bridge work going on). There were MDOT open houses about reworking the I-96/I-196/Beltline interchange that I went to last year.

As far as highways looping Lansing, they can keep em. They only contribute to sprawl and just give us more roads to maintain with a shrinking state budget. But I think they have them because legislators in Lansing wanted them.

I think the reason Lansing has more highways is because two interstates (69 and 96) intersect. The other highways (127, 496) get a lot of traffic, and 127 often has quite bad traffic jams from what I recall.

[alliteration]

Yeah, 127 is really the only busy section of freeway Lansing has, and its really just the few miles from I-96 to I-69 at most. The roads in Lansing are never really busy, so two lanes are all thats really needed anyhow. Yet getting north and south in Lansing is inconvenient, unless you are on the east side of the city.

[actinic]

Don't know if Lansing has anything this bad but try entering northbound 131 at Pearl, then rapidly cross all lanes to get on to westbound 196

[Flapjac583]

Ya, the highway infrastructure around Lansing was not intentional, just happened that way. I-96 is a very historical route once an Indian trail in the 1800s, it later became a route for settlers to Lake Mich. from Detroit. Then eventually a road was put in as Grand River Ave. from Detroit to Grand Rapids. Then later named M16, then to US16. Later, relocated off of Grand River Ave to a more express route then named eventually as I-96 in the late 50s when the interstate system came about. I-69 on the other hand never existed like it does today, it was built in segments in the 50s all the way up into the 1990s. The route was part of US 27 at the time which ran to Lansing, then followed M78 to Flint and M21 to Port Huron/Sarnia. The route from Indiana State Line to Marshall was the first piece, then finished up to Charlotte, where it then turned into Lansing Rd/US27 and went right into Lansing and merged with I496 and followed US 127 to M43 through East Lansing to M78 just East of East Lansing. Conjestion was pretty bad with all the surface street use through town and eventually I69 was built from near East Lansing to Flint. The northern extension of I69 was extended to US 27/127 Then continues West to I96 and follows I96 to SW Lansing, then the final portion between Charlotte and Lansing was Completed in the early 90s. US 127 Between Lansing and St Johns was not finished until the late 90s when a freeway portion was built from Lake Lansing Rd to I69, bypassing the old route through North Lansing and to St Johns now known as old 27. Then US127 was finished to just north of St Johns this was called the St Johns bypass route and shortened travel times for commerce going North from Indiana/Ohio and southern Mich. There is still a 15 mile stretch of US 127 that is unfinished from St Johns to Ithaca as has been talk of completing this leg, but there has been no funding to back it up from the Feds or the State. This 15 mile stretch is nortorious as a speed trap as speed limits are reduced from 70 to 55. Also all freeways are 2 lanes each way in and around Lansing except where I96/I69 are concurrent routes, the added traffic between the freeways is the reason this is a 3 lane each way 5 mile stretch or so. Parts of I496 around Cedar/Pennsylvania Ave is 2 lanes with 2-3 additional service/merge lanes between these 2 interchanges. Service roads folllow I496 through downtown lansing on both sides of the highway from Lansing Rd to Pennsylvania Ave. A service rd setup also runs from I496/US127 north to Saginaw St to function as 2 exits that serve 3 busy roads. However, the main problem is the US127/I496 stretch between I96 to I496/US127 split. commuters from the south and east traveling into Lansing get bottlenecked here as only 2 lanes exist as left lane branches left into Lansng and right lane goes north, and the Jolly/Dunckle interchange is also compounding the problem as UPS/FED Ex/USPS all use that interchange as gateways to their routes from their service centers in that area. No plans are in the works for widening, but a new bridge is proposed at Jolly/Dunckle this summer widening the bridge and improving the interchange this summer. Also bridge replacement on US 127 near I96 will also occur this summer. Also to note, I69 was changed from I69 North/South where it breaks away from I96 NW of Lansing to I69 East/West. This is odd, but works since the highway does travel a more easterly route to Canada. Although this breaks the signage rule as odd interstates are N-S and evens are E-W.