[TurboState]

General Motors spent VAST amount of money shutting down mass transit in this country so they could sell more cars and buses.

A little known fact is that the Los Angeles area had a world class mass transit system until the mid-50's. GM purchased the entire system, then closed it down and sold millions of dollars in cars and buses as a result.

Why should I feel bad about not supporting grossly corrupt American institutions that have done nothing but hurt us? They continue to push to keep fuel standards low so they can shove their overpriced gas hogging trash down peoples throats.

Forget it, I will never buy a car from the big three again! EVER!

[sci311]

Originally Posted by Drover

I'm sure your neighbors that work for foreign-based companies really appreciate that.

You don't have to buy American products to help your neighbors.

I live in metro Detroit, take a guess how many of my neighbors work for foreign-based companies.

[Drover]

Probably more than you realize. Any city that has a major financial and industrial presence is going to draw a lot of foreign capital and companies. Detroit is no exception.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by TurboState

General Motors spent VAST amount of money shutting down mass transit in this country so they could sell more cars and buses.

Uh-huh, sure.

Guess who made the locomotives that power the commuter rail system here in Chicago?

I'll give you a hint: it starts with "General" and ends with "Motors."

[TurboState]

Originally Posted by Drover

Uh-huh, sure.

Guess who made the locomotives that power the commuter rail system here in Chicago?

I'll give you a hint: it starts with "General" and ends with "Motors."

What I say is easily verifiable. In fact, MSNBC had a program on it just last night discussing how the big three effectively turned off mass-transit in this country so they'd sell more cars. Most of their actions on this took place in the 50's and 60's. Big deal, they made a train engine your point? I hope you aren't dumb enough to think they'd actually worry about the profit loss from a few less locomotive engines compared to MILLIONS of automobiles... Nobody is that blind.

Bottom line, the Big Three have been an impediment for almost everything that would have saved lives or helped consumers. Did you know they fought seatbelt laws for DECADES because they claimed it would be too costly? The list goes on and on, but the biggest thing that pisses me off is how they constantly spend millions fighting increased fuel standards.

The big three are digging their own grave and I won't shed a tear over their demise.

[iamweasel]

Originally Posted by Drover

I'm sure your neighbors that work for foreign-based companies really appreciate that.

You don't have to buy American products to help your neighbors.

Okay, how about I buy American to help MORE of my neighbors than buying a Honda would do?

And I don't drive some POS just for the sake of doing so. Currently I drive a Fusion which is a fantastic vehicle. Great looks, sporty but quiet, comfortable and even had a higher quality rating than the Accord/Camry. (Yes, I know, we'll see how it does long-term but so far I've got 25K miles on it and not a squeak or rattle to be heard.)

[sci311]

Originally Posted by Drover

Probably more than you realize. Any city that has a major financial and industrial presence is going to draw a lot of foreign capital and companies. Detroit is no exception.

I agree with you in that regard, but I literally mean my "neighbors". There are a number of people on my street that work for one of the "Big 3". As I stated in an earlier post, I also have family and friends that work for the domestic car companies.

I'm not here trying to defend the companies themselves. I'm just concerned by what I see happening to the people, that's all. I'm sorry that TurboState up there is so angry about the what the companies may have done, but I don't agree with the logic for not buying American. The mass transit thing was 50+ years ago (and it is shameful at that), but I could use the same argument and talk about what Japanese did 60 years ago as a reason not to buy any of their products. I won't do that of course because times have changed. The only valid issue he brought up today is the gas mileage situation. Much of that problem is with the consumer, not the companies. Nobody forces people to buy giant SUV's. By the way, haven't foriegn companies been working their way into these markets too?

Yes, the American companies have fought required gas mileage increases but it is for reasons that have been eluded to in earlier posts. You can't build compact cars in America and be expected to compete with the foreign brands under the current trade system.

[iamweasel]

Originally Posted by TurboState

Why should I feel bad about not supporting grossly corrupt American institutions that have done nothing but hurt us? They continue to push to keep fuel standards low so they can shove their overpriced gas hogging trash down peoples throats.

Forget it, I will never buy a car from the big three again! EVER!

I guess you missed the fact Toyota was also in DC recently trying to keep the CAFE standards down.

As much as people whine and complain about fuel mileage, deep down most of the people in this country are not really that serious about it. Engine efficiency keeps getting better but consumers keep demanding more and more power. Heck, a Honda Accord now has a 260 horsepower engine when it used to be in the 150 range in the late 80's/early 90's. This new engine is just slightly worse on fuel economy but has a massive increase in performance.

If they kept increasing the standards then that type of movement will no longer be possible. 75% of customers now would choose the power increase and forego fuel savings of the smaller engines. Every mid-size sedan on the market has a fuel efficient 4-cylinder engine AND a V6 offered. If people were so concerned about using fuel then you should see 4-cylinder sales dominate the segment but it's the other way around. The V6 mix is easily 75% of the segment.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by sci311

I agree with you in that regard, but I literally mean my "neighbors". There are a number of people on my street that work for one of the "Big 3".

Is it even worth mentioning that one of the "Big 3" is a German subsidiary?

[Drover]

Originally Posted by iamweasel

Heck, a Honda Accord now has a 260 horsepower engine when it used to be in the 150 range in the late 80's/early 90's. This new engine is just slightly worse on fuel economy but has a massive increase in performance.

You know times have changed when you can buy a 200HP Honda Civic (!!) right off the showroom floor....