[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by doublebb

If your so concerned with over population, why are you still here??

Would you please elaborate? I'm having a difficult time understanding what exactly you're trying to convey. Are you asking, "Why haven't you committed suicide yet?" or are you asking, "Why haven't you moved to a sparsely populated part of the world?"

What point are you trying to prove by asking that question anyway? That we don't need to concern ourselves with this issue?

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by pnutbujelly

We are seeing things I have never seen before and I have seen every thing from Vietnam on to present and all the recessions in between. The problem is that there are 2 generations who have not seen anything like the 80s recession not to mention what we are going through now.

We've had recessions before in my lifetime, but I wonder, was there as much outright fear in the air as there is now? I'm under the impression that in previous recessions--early Eighties and early Nineties--that people sincerely believed that the economy would get better. However, I get the sense that many people (myself included) have far less faith that the economy will get better eventually this time.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by wanderer74

Right now unfortunately I can't see why any company would want to locate in Michigan, between its high tax rate, population with a lower than average educational attainment, and the way we cling to unions.

Do you really think the issue of educational attainment is that great of a motivating factor? Does a businessman who wants to open up a factory really need to have college-educated blue collar employees? (Would he even want to hire people with college educations in the first place for a blue collar factory job? Businesses tend to be averse to hiring people who are overqualified.)

The politicians and the media mouth this stuff as though it's an unquestioned religious dogma. Michigan still has excellent universities including a first-rate "public ivy" and many of those graduates would love to stay in their home state of Michigan if they could find suitable employment. Also, to hear some people tell it, our high school graduates can't read or write or do simple math or perform blue collar factory jobs.

Many people would be amazed if they knew just how much unemployment and underemployment there is in numerous knowledge-based fields. Most folks would be shocked to learn that the science Ph.D. has low economic, low career value and that it's a horrible path for someone with a high IQ to take.

I read an interesting post earlier tonight proposing that one reason we see fewer women in science is because they are less irrational than men. (I don't completely buy the argument.) Anyway, he had a great quote. "Adjusted for IQ, quantitative skills, and working hours, jobs in science are the lowest paid in the United States." I know this is a little off-topic, but since it was such a provoking post, I'll link to it:

Women in Science

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by wanderer74

I have this same concern. I think that the U.S. economy has been on a downward spiral for many years, which was covered up with easy access to credit, and now the dam has finally broken. Real wages were declining, but we were collectively able to keep the economy afloat largely with consumption of goods and services purchased on credit. Now millions of our jobs are gone (lost either to downsizing or offshoring) and the credit is drying up, so people don't have the same access to money to keep boosting a consumer-based economy. I would say that the majority of people I know are at their breaking point with debt loads already, and it's obvious that endless consumption isn't a sustainable way to live. Yet it's what kept our economy afloat, and we're already seeing that even a percentage of the public cutting back on their shopping is hurting the economy.

The only way I can see things turning around here is if we go back to producing most of our own goods in this country and accept that we can't buy as many of them, having to save for key items instead of mindlessly shopping as recreation. In short, I think it has to go back to the way it was many decades ago. The problem with that is that the new business model seems to be driven by the idea that profits have to continually increase every year - just continuing to make a profit isn't enough, it has to be an ever-growing amount of profit. The only way to do that is to make lower-quality goods that have to be purchased more frequently, while simultaneously cutting wages and jobs. We're seeing the results of that now: you can't expect people to keep shopping when they don't have jobs or they're making less money in real dollars than they were 30 years ago. I think the whole culture needs to change for the country as a whole to bounce back, on a personal and business level. I'm not sure when - or if - that will happen.

My thoughts exactly. Have you been reading all of my posts on economic subjects for the past year or so? <g> I agree that the housing bubble masked the real malaise in our economy. Ironically, the collapse of the housing market and the credit market are now masking the nation's real underlying economic problem of global labor arbitrage. That is to say that unsurprisingly, it is the easy, politically correct targets of the collapse of the housing market and the consequent banking industry problems that are receiving attention and blame.

[Yac]

Enough with the off topic.
We have a separate forum called Politics and other controversies - you are free to argue libs vs cons there.
Also, like I said numerous times - please don't feed the trolls. This only leads to threads getting closed.
Like this one.
Yac.