[WheredoIlive?]

Originally Posted by darstar

Just look at the difference , St. Joe , is not so bad. There must be a reason....and they are so close they run together.... Jobs are a lot of the problem , and , a lot of reason these places exist.

Same goes for the Coal Mines In KY.and W VA. poverty follows.... It was the employment that drew people to these places. It was the exploitation of the people that created the bad environment , only to worsen when the factory's left town, and , left the workers behind..... Big Business is responsible for most of the problems , they have been the breeding ground for bringing all the people together, in a lot of rust belt areas, the large , and medium sized communities.
We must demand a more responsible effort be put on Business to clean it up , along with the profits , they amass , and , then leave the mess for the tax payer. Business is now required to clean up the natural environment , why not the people environment as well ?

Honestly the demise of American manufacturing created the ghettos [remember the days when people moved to Michigan even from down South to get jobs? both white and black?] Didnt ghettos really explode in the 70s and 80s when a normal family man of whatever race, found he could barely support his family? Look back to how life was even for working class blacks in the 40s, and 50s, it wasnt this ghetto gang-banging stuff. [There poverty was more immense due to the hisotical factors discussed on this thread, so there you go, but it is growing nation wide]

The fact that Big business has sold this country down the river and the fact that globalization and things like NAFTA were put first instead of the interests of Americans is the reason our ghettos are growing.

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by WheredoIlive?

Well more white color crime is done in secret. I consider the Bail outs for the banks one of the BIGGEST CRIMES going, so you got that part right.

I guess at least you can walk down the street without getting harrassed, or beaten up or raped usually, so Im going to go with the place where yeah they probably are stealing gobs of money behind closed doors but will be leaving me alone.

All the crime and corruption filters down. The greed and mroe impacts this wholc country from the bail outs down to the ghetto.

But they AREN'T leaving you alone. Middle-class crime, from high-school girls shoplifting to drunken date rapes in college towns and massive corporate tax fraud, costs you a fortune every year. These criminals are what the average joes and janes need to worry about. They cost us jobs, tax money for all kinds of services and benefits, and they perpetuate the foul American non-work ethic of getting something for nothing. The kind of violent crime people are usually scared of -- every news story wants you to be more scared than ever of some black guy in a ski mask who is not, in fact, lurking behind the next tree -- that kind of crime was always unusual, and has dropped every year for the last couple of decades.

Just sayin'.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

Great idea!

Our government could pay to move these "savages" to Wyoming. We could create "reservations" on which they could start over in the wide open country. We could build schools that teach them how to speak proper English and fade out their indigenous languages we collectively call "Ebonics". We could change their names from "Shaniqua" to "Sherry" and condition them to what we believe to be a "better way of life" - namely, ours.

As an expression of goodwill, we might even create a government bureau to represent their interests. We could put a little store in the federal building to sell their indigenous hip-hop music and beaded crafts because that's all they'll have since they live even further from any opportunity for a legitimate livelihood than they did before.

But, rest assured, for extra income tourists could visit their reservations to see demonstrations of "real" black spiritual ceremonies (complete with singing and passionate preaching). Keep your camera at the ready! You might be lucky enough to catch a game of pick-up basketball - a favorite pastime for recreation and warrior training for this once proud people.

That's a proven model of success!

Your sarcasm is misguided here. I was not being specific as to race , color , creed , or national origin. ( yes , the native Americans did get a raw deal , it was racial , " only good Indian is a dead Indian " ).... I am talking about youth specifically , that go on , year after , generation after generation repeating the same habits. They mostly all come from the same environment. We need to break the cycle. Education and pride is the best motivator. Wyoming was just an example as its is our most lest populated state. There are plenty of unpopulated places in Michigan as well. When you put a lot of poor people in one spot , you have mass problems. At lest , in the more diverse , middle class areas the severity of social problems are spread out. There is little real reason to live in these crime ridden places. The people just need help , to get out , not , just to throw more money at a problem that never gets better because of the semitic nature of the environment. It does not matter , black , white , Hispanic or whatever, results are the same.
Explain to me why many of the northern European ethnic neighborhoods , towns , villages , and small cities , do not have the same problems. Is it like " the other side of the tracks"scenario ? ) A place , that unfortunates , in a prosperous society sometime wind up in , due to economics. I don't think so , I think the ghetto problem breeds on itself , feeds itself , and is supported by and for all the wrong reasons. We need to remove the cause , the place , that created the problem..... And , maybe all this is just a product of society as I said before , one , that from time to time needs to be wiped out , to start over..... If I were poor , I would want to live around rich folks , some of it might rub off. Or , live where crime was not a way of live , or an occupation. Do you know what the life expectancy of young men is in the ghettos ?... Its way below the national average.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Good place to put a daisy cutter.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by darstar

You are missing the point. Its these depressed ,. poor , crime ridden neighborhoods that are costing the tax payers. A lot of fat cats own the slums buildings , . The people are trapped in these places. Its a profit motive for a few , but a drain on the rest of us. There is no reason in this land of plenty for these places to persist... There was a time when most of the Country was rural , we need to get back to it , start growing food again , and supplying the nation and the world with what we can produce. The factories have gone overseas , the farms, have not..

Knowing no other way , can be a bad thing. Unless you remove the environment , nothing will change. Show our young people there is a way of life , away from drugs , guns , and violence. If necessary , remove them by force ..... desperation is a strong motivator , to sink so low as to have to be subject to all this on a daily basis. Is it safety in numbers , mob rule , I am not sure.... What I do know , is there is poverty in rural America as well. More so than in the city , sometimes , yet , the crime does not seem to go along with the poverty. ... I don't have all the answers , but it does seem to me , we can buy our way out of a lot of intercity ghettos , as a lesser cost , than the cost of maintaining them. If it means half way camps , make work projects , then so be it. Give these unfortunates a reason to exist that is productive , not destructive , and we will all prosper.

Maybe Detroit could be where you build their reservation and make-work camps.

I don't see how it would be fair for a state like Michigan which created much of this mess with it's very generous welfare state to ship it's problems to another state.

My solution - require everyone applying for welfare handouts of any kind to voluntarily be sterilized. Not just some temporary pill but permanently surgically sterilized. No one on welfare handouts needs to be reproducing, it's time to stop paying the dregs of society to breed.

It's not about race because many blacks have moved into the middle class, it's about an underclass that values nothing, not even it's own children and they provide them no guidance.

[Bluefly]

Explain to me why many of the northern European ethnic neighborhoods , towns , villages , and small cities , do not have the same problems. Is it like " the other side of the tracks"scenario ? )

There are two groups in the United States that defy the conventional structure.

One is the blacks - who were brought here for slavery and didn't really "arrive" in the United States until the 1960s.

The other is Native Americans - whose genocide need no explanation.

Everyone else - from the Irish and German immigrants of the 19th century to the Asian and Latinos of today - follow the same path from immigrants subject to racism and bigotry to working class to middle class over the course of multiple generations.

[SWV]

Originally Posted by WheredoIlive?

What other names do we have for places that are full of crime, falling apart and kids running wild, committing violent crimes?

They ARE GHETTOS.


{Kalamazoo as a whole is not ghetto, but it has a ghetto}

Parchment, one can walk down the street and not worry about getting their butt kicked.

I've lived in these ghettos, by the way, no thank you, NEVER AGAIN.

But you called the NORTH SIDE GHETTO and it's not.
I haven't been jumped by a mob of people in Parchment but I have been robbed. So would you call that the ghetto? Because believe it or not PARCHMENT has crime.

People don't know or they forget what the word ''GHETTO'' really supposed to be used for.

[SWV]

Originally Posted by malamute

Maybe Detroit could be where you build their reservation and make-work camps.

I don't see how it would be fair for a state like Michigan which created much of this mess with it's very generous welfare state to ship it's problems to another state.

My solution - require everyone applying for welfare handouts of any kind to voluntarily be sterilized. Not just some temporary pill but permanently surgically sterilized. No one on welfare handouts needs to be reproducing, it's time to stop paying the dregs of society to breed.

It's not about race because many blacks have moved into the middle class, it's about an underclass that values nothing, not even it's own children and they provide them no guidance.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by malamute

Maybe Detroit could be where you build their reservation and make-work camps.

I don't see how it would be fair for a state like Michigan which created much of this mess with it's very generous welfare state to ship it's problems to another state.

My solution - require everyone applying for welfare handouts of any kind to voluntarily be sterilized. Not just some temporary pill but permanently surgically sterilized. No one on welfare handouts needs to be reproducing, it's time to stop paying the dregs of society to breed.

It's not about race because many blacks have moved into the middle class, it's about an underclass that values nothing, not even it's own children and they provide them no guidance.

You mean like the woman in CA. that has 14 kids , no job , no future , and is proud of it. ( look for some of these kids to be farmed out to the State )..
Sterilizing these women , sounds like a good idea , but it is not. Even China , a Communist State doesn't do that. What is needed , is to reward these women for NOT having more kids, the reverse of what is now going on.
You need a marriage license , why not a baby license. Shelling out more and more kids , for welfare , and for Status ( from a male view ) with out oversight is the wrong way to go about it. Fitness should be a requirement for everyone , not just a select group. We do not need to discriminate.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

There are two groups in the United States that defy the conventional structure.

One is the blacks - who were brought here for slavery and didn't really "arrive" in the United States until the 1960s.

The other is Native Americans - whose genocide need no explanation.

Everyone else - from the Irish and German immigrants of the 19th century to the Asian and Latinos of today - follow the same path from immigrants subject to racism and bigotry to working class to middle class over the course of multiple generations.

Your statement is quite true , thats the way History has enfolded. However , I do think the Latino's are the fastest growing group , and , will take over as a majority not minatory in the next 50 years. They do have an advantage however , they can go Home , just walk across the border..
Unless you are in Miami , or NYC , the Blacks don't seem to be " foreign " , they are as much a part of the American scene as anyone else. Its been way too long to continue the discourse of racial divide. Yes , the ghettos are predominately Black , and that is a problem I would fix , with my plan. Move em out , not because they are Black , but because they live in a systemic environment. There was a time when most Blacks were rural. They picked cotton , and worked as sharecroppers . So did a lot of white folks. The cities have worked like a magnet , drawing in people that were looking for a better life. What they found , was more of the same , poverty. That needs to change. Its time to go back to the Farm..... to follow the yellow brick road.