[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Bydand

You also have to remember that a few very vocal posters do NOT represent the entire state. Most of them are not even in-state, just posting on the MI board and stirring things up. I have lived in MI most of my life and the areas I grew up in, and lived in as an adult, have very little racism and/or class envy. Where I am now is probably the most accepting of people I have EVER lived, and there is almost zero class-envy. Nobody cares what somebody else makes for a wage, what size house, type car they drive, or the type clothes they have. Elsewhere, there may be some, but really it is much less for the vast majority of the state than anyplace else I have been. People tend to make the mistake of judging the entire state by actions and perceptions of the NE corner, or larger cities. Just like PA is not all Pittsburgh, or the old stereotype of the Scranton area. MI is not Detroit, Saginaw, Flint, or even Grand Rapids.

Back when segregation was an accepted policy in this Country, where was one of the top destinations for African-American families to get away on vacation where they were accepted and welcomed? Idlewild, MI which is not too far away from where I grew up. My Grandfather and Grandmother welcomed passing black tourists into their little store for supplies and into their home if the need arose, just like they did for white travelers. They were NOT unique in this area. Some family friends had a resort on a lakeside in the area and welcomed people of every color. They lost some of their big city clients, but I remember when the race riots of the 60's were going on when I was a kid and sitting around a "community" campfire at the resort surrounded by Blacks, Whites and Latinos together talking about the days fishing, or other explorations; as well as the riots; and I wondered why everybody got along so well in our area and not in other areas, even areas only a hundred miles or so away. (Frankly I still wonder to tell the truth.)

Please don't judge the entire state by the rantings of a few very vocal idiots who can hide behind a computer keyboard and spread their stupidity.

I think the reason why your area is like that is because I know that Baldwin was a huge Underground Railroad town. It has an usually high Black population for a small town in the North and has for a while. So, maybe it is due to the area being a bit more tolerant and historically being that way. Actually, isn't Baldwin in the same county as Idlewild?

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

I think the reason why your area is like that is because I know that Baldwin was a huge Underground Railroad town. It has an usually high Black population for a small town in the North and has for a while. So, maybe it is due to the area being a bit more tolerant and historically being that way. Actually, isn't Baldwin in the same county as Idlewild?

Thanks for posting that. I have wondered for years about the origins of the overwhelmingly Black population of that county, away up North.

[Bydand]

Baldwin and Idlewild are only a couple miles apart in Lake County, MI.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Cliffie

Thanks for posting that. I have wondered for years about the origins of the overwhelmingly Black population of that county, away up North.

Yeah, a girl I went to church with here in Syracuse, her father is from there originally. There are some other towns up that way that have decent Black percentages like Big Rapids and White Cloud too.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

I think you could make your point better if you DEMONSTRATE or backup your Major and Minor premises. Demonstrate that Philadelphia or the state of Pennsylvania is more integrated than Michigan in a significant way. Also demonstrate or give examples of this in regards to class, assuming that both premises are not simply sweeping generalizations.

Obviously no one in Pennsylvania have children that they cannot take care of and hence the only place you can find case studies of why people do this is Michigan via the Michigan forum. Okey Dokey…..Gotcha…..sounds like a legitimate search for knowledge and understanding to me.

You talk about the state of Michigan educational attainment, and then you use statistics from the City of Detroit. The last time I checked the City of Detroit and the State of Michigan are not synonymous. Furthermore, the City of Detroit is hardly a Microcosm of the state of Michigan demographically and no intelligent well meaning and educated person would attempt to use Detroit proper to make a point about the state as a whole, for what is true of the part is not necessarily true for the whole. Such assumptions are called “the fallacy of composition”.

Why is history a subject in schools? What does the American Revolution, freedom from Britain, the founding fathers or even WWI and WWII have to do with the decisions we make today? Did it not set the structural foundations of democracy that our decisions of today are framed and manifest? Slavery is as influential in to the present state of American Americans as the revolution, the founding fathers, and the shaping of America is influential on white Americans lives today. The only way to understand and explain the present is via use of events in the past.

That having been said, life is a competition. It’s a relay race with each generation representing a leg of the race. Each generation is passed the baton from the previous generation. Hence, the new generation always starts off from the position they inherited from the previous generation. Therefore, if the previous generation was stunted in their progress, due to race, they pass on that socioeconomic disadvantaged starting point to the next generation, who has to be SUPERIOR in effort to make up the inherited difference. The ONLY way that the disadvantage can be made up is through SUPERIORITY. Hence, the failure to be SUPERIOR means that the disadvantage will always be preserved. Working just as hard will not do it because the gap cannot be lessened by being the same, but only by being SUPERIOR to whites. That assumes that whites have been running as hard in life as they claim. If they have been slackers...then yes....blacks can theoretically reached parity from white laziness, assuming that blacks are running as fast as they can. Blacks struggle to first break from from the environment that they inherited.....which uses up and traps a large percentage. Those who break free then can compete in the "white world".....by that time...they have used up a lot of energy...that many whites never have to expend.

Sad, but true. It makes you wonder why the term "RACE" is used in the first place. Hence, the statements you made.

[allistercrowly]

I don't think there are many people in Michigan that anyone is "envious" of. I think that people in Michigan are envious of people who have gotten out. Even if they try to say it is not true.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by allistercrowly

I don't think there are many people in Michigan that anyone is "envious" of. I think that people in Michigan are envious of people who have gotten out. Even if they try to say it is not true.

Wow, are you really that self-absorbed that you think your own personal feelings are indicative of every other living persons feelings? I am not envious of anybody else, especially those who have had to move away from Michigan. I worked my behind off to move back into Michigan this last year. I sure am not lying or trying to fool myself or anyone else when I say I am happy to be back here in Michigan.

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by allistercrowly

I don't think there are many people in Michigan that anyone is "envious" of. I think that people in Michigan are envious of people who have gotten out. Even if they try to say it is not true.

I feel lucky that I haven't had to move. Some of us like it here you know!

[alliteration]

Originally Posted by Bydand

Wow, are you really that self-absorbed that you think your own personal feelings are indicative of every other living persons feelings? I am not envious of anybody else, especially those who have had to move away from Michigan. I worked my behind off to move back into Michigan this last year. I sure am not lying or trying to fool myself or anyone else when I say I am happy to be back here in Michigan.

I think you need to chill out. Some people here do joke every once in awhile. I'm fairly certain the poster wasn't dead serious in their remark. Some people here get a little too defensive when people jest about this state.

[pirate_lafitte]

Michigan has a history that seems rather interesting and yet in some ways contradictory. Michigan was one of the fronts for the Undergroud Railroad. It was not a slave state. With that said, it had many issues. Michigan's African-American population didn't get into large numbers until Henry Ford started creating jobs. Ford Motor Company was a major reason for blacks moving to Michigan. Many blacks were looking for an escape from Jim Crow and for better job opportunities. Many blacks found jobs in the factories. Some found fortune(How do you think Motown Records got its start?). There were many who faced problems finding jobs. Not only that, Michigan didn't prove to be that much better as far as race relations went. There were many forms of discrimination. Blacks were denied housing in some places, mainly in the form of restrcitive covenents. Dearborn even had sundown ordinances keeping blacks out, as did many places across Michigan. Blacks had to live where they could find housing. Racial tensions rose as the black population rose. Then came WWII. Detroit became the arsenal of the USA. Many factories made ammunitions. Another migration of African-Americans came to Michigan for the work. In addition, many white Southerners came to Michigan for the work. Racial tensions were latent on both ends. A race riot broke out in 1943 in Detriot. Detroit wasn't the only city either. After that, there were still more blacks moving to Michigan from the South as an escape route from Jim Crow and a chance to secure better opportunities. While some found work, others found problems. In some places living conditions were terrible, crime was rampant and there were tensions building. These tensions came to a head in July 1967. Tensions between blacks and the police wre particularly bad. What happened? Sometimes it took a straw on the camel's back to cause alarm. That is what happens. Many blacks were angry at the conditions and the fact that things weren't getting better. Riots were occuring , not only in Detroit, but in Lansing and Grand Rapids. Detroit was never the same after that. What ever problems that were occuring in Detroit seemed to escalate after that. Crime went up. Jobs went away. Poverty and drugs came too. Loss of jobs, and a climate rife with racial tensions caused many problems in Detroit, but this wasn't the only area either.
I could be wrong. I don't know everything.