[MittenDweller82]

Originally Posted by St Starseed

I guess what I'm wondering then...does anyone see a brighter future for Michigan in terms of its catching up with the more educated/mobile/creative regions of America (Portland, Chicago, DC, Charlotte, Memphis, etc.)? The state has lived so long on the supply-line thinking of the auto industry (right down to its odd proportion of Catholics) that I'm curious if people have an idea when that will change...one generation? two? When is Michigan going to catch up to the rest of the country instead of digging its heels into the ground, all the while yelling, "We won't change because we're Michiganders!" (and not realizing the ground is moving anyway) ?

This is an interesting passage, there are those here who want sweeping changes, but also those who (mostly elderly and extreme conservatives) who live in isolated geographic corners of Michigan who will bravely defend their way of life. Try passing a school millage in small town Michigan, or talking of the notion of "change" or any development, the town hall will be filled with zealous 40-60 somethings ready to stamp no on any advancement...the time warp must remain.

While, in pockets such as Ann Arbor and some portions of GR, Royal Oak, Ferndale, (etc) you have progressive young adults who are somewhat satisfied with the amenities and culture, but most end up leaving (especially if they are degreed). Ann Arbor is an excellent example, its culture and popularity comes from a international population, not Michigan natives.

But, it really starts with young adults, most intelligent degreed 20 somethings realize their chances of success in more progressive cities (Chicago, Dallas, Portland, Seattle) are far greater, not to mention....realizing that if they were to stay in Michigan they would be behind hundreds of thousands of older displaced more experienced workers.

Yes, this state was built on the foundation of auto production, and its roots are embedded in every community in some form....the very fabric of people's lives revolves around now nearly bankrupt companies. For those who haven't lived outside of Michigan in a large urban area, the idea that Michigan is "in the past" might be hard for them to see, and...for many Michigander's...they could care less.

After moving back from Chicago (one of my biggest mistakes in my life) I saw Michigan in a whole new light...it is, a time warp in a sense, both culturally, ideologically, progressively...things that take decades to develop. To say that Michigan will foster such growth as some of the cities you listed is such a monumental undertaking, it would be the equivalent of trying to transform rain forest into desert. You are very brave indeed to relocate, after my second time coming back to Michigan, I realize that I cannot stay in my home...I will be going back to Chicago!

Good Luck!

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by MittenDweller82

This is an interesting passage, there are those here who want sweeping changes, but also those who (mostly elderly and extreme conservatives) who live in isolated geographic corners of Michigan who will bravely defend their way of life. Try passing a school millage in small town Michigan, or talking of the notion of "change" or any development, the town hall will be filled with zealous 40-60 somethings ready to stamp no on any advancement...the time warp must remain.

Not all small towns in Michigan are like this though. The town I live in just built a new school, remodeled 2 buildings and added a big wing on the High School. We are 1200 in town and 1700 in the schools. Once they changed the proposal so there was extra room for growth, the additional millage passed. Along with a second additional millage for a new water system, and a third to expand the public transportation system to new areas.

While, in pockets such as Ann Arbor and some portions of GR, Royal Oak, Ferndale, (etc) you have progressive young adults who are somewhat satisfied with the amenities and culture, but most end up leaving (especially if they are degreed). Ann Arbor is an excellent example, its culture and popularity comes from a international population, not Michigan natives.

But, it really starts with young adults, most intelligent degreed 20 somethings realize their chances of success in more progressive cities (Chicago, Dallas, Portland, Seattle) are far greater, not to mention....realizing that if they were to stay in Michigan they would be behind hundreds of thousands of older displaced more experienced workers.

Only in some fields. I know "young, intelligent, degreed 20 somethings" who have stayed put and excelled in their field. As well as others who went away for school and brought their shiny new degrees back with them as soon as they got out and are doing well. To say it happens in a majority of the cases would be stretching the truth to a breaking point though I am afraid. I don't think we have reached the "Hundreds of thousands of displaced older workers" mark though. A lot of them yes, but not those numbers. Plus unless they have kept up their training they are no longer the most desirable workers, too expensive to pay for that experience without up to date training to go along with the experience you know.

Yes, this state was built on the foundation of auto production, and its roots are embedded in every community in some form....the very fabric of people's lives revolves around now nearly bankrupt companies. For those who haven't lived outside of Michigan in a large urban area, the idea that Michigan is "in the past" might be hard for them to see, and...for many Michigander's...they could care less.

The further you get from the SE corner, the less the Auto industry is felt. The town I live in doesn't have a thing tied to the auto industry, unless you count the mechanic and gas stations. For some us us who HAVE been away from Michigan and lived in some of those large urban areas (and rural areas in other states) you mentioned, we couldn't wait to get back here. Yes Michigan is behind the times in many areas. For some though those are the areas it is NICE to be behind the times in. Neighbors still help neighbors; people are still interested in helping their community ,if not grow, at least stay viable. Children can still go to the park to play, and meet their friends for a bike ride. The store owners still know who you are as a person, and not just a walking dollar dispenser they need to get as many of those dollars out of while in their place of business (we do have those as well though.)

After moving back from Chicago (one of my biggest mistakes in my life) I saw Michigan in a whole new light...it is, a time warp in a sense, both culturally, ideologically, progressively...things that take decades to develop. To say that Michigan will foster such growth as some of the cities you listed is such a monumental undertaking, it would be the equivalent of trying to transform rain forest into desert. You are very brave indeed to relocate, after my second time coming back to Michigan, I realize that I cannot stay in my home...I will be going back to Chicago!

Good Luck!

To think that an entire States growth could mimic that of a few large cities isn't reasonable, but I think we know what you are trying to say. Detroit, Flint, & GR does have a long way to go. GR is closer than some of the other larger cities in the State, but has to work on issues in order to accommodate the growth they would like. Overall the State has a long way to go in revamping our industrialized output to something different and hopefully more diverse than it has been in the past.

I can see that leaving Chicago for most of the state would be hard to let go of if you like urban settings. It is a vibrant, awesome city. Good luck in getting back there if that is where you feel is best for you, I can think of about a million places that would be worse (and yes some of those million places are right here in Michigan.)

[Giesela]

I love Michigan, mostly for its geography. But its geography does I think play a role in its culture -
fur trappers and loggers aren't the most outgoing forward thinking types genetically and neither are all the hills and holler people from the crevices of Appalachia. Throw that in with being somewhat cut off by being a penninsula and you get some insular tendencies.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by Giesela

I love Michigan, mostly for its geography. But its geography does I think play a role in its culture -
fur trappers and loggers aren't the most outgoing forward thinking types genetically and neither are all the hills and holler people from the crevices of Appalachia. Throw that in with being somewhat cut off by being a penninsula and you get some insular tendencies.

I don't know how true that is but I had some friends from Michigan who went to my church. One was born in Saginaw and the other was from greater Detroit area. They were both friendly as well kind of laid back and quiet. Maybe the peninsular tendencies make for somewhat quiet people. My friend from Saginaw also drove a Ford, which was assembled by UAW of Michigan.

[tjay]

Originally Posted by DaniellaG

I am from Oakland County West Bloomfield which is about 20 min or so from Northville which is a cute town. I am living in FL for the winter and was in Ca last year. Anyhow so like you have experience with a range of people and the pros and cons of each place. I think for you the major pro should be you and your wife have a job because many don't and that is in all states. I do agree that you hear negative from a lot of people in MI but even as I go on the other state forums you hear that about other states as well. Grass is always greener on the other side. I am in FL right now like I said and to me the people are less friendly here then in MI and I do agree that MI is not that friendly overall. I do feel a lot is the part you live in. I hope you are surprised and the move is better then you think. At least you are moving at the end of the winter. That is a positive and spring/summer is very nice in MI.

i'm not trying to be negative, and maybe its just been my experience....but i find there is quite a bit of unfriendliness in oakland county, or that area. when i am in public in those areas, people will hardly look at you or rarely initiate conversation. i notice it is considerably different when i'm not in that area....seems like there is alot more materialism too. a typical family home is a mini mansion in that area. are homes that large really necessary? i know what i've said sounds bad, i guess i just don't understand?

[MI-IRISH]

Originally Posted by tjay

i'm not trying to be negative, and maybe its just been my experience....but i find there is quite a bit of unfriendliness in oakland county, or that area. when i am in public in those areas, people will hardly look at you or rarely initiate conversation. i notice it is considerably different when i'm not in that area....seems like there is alot more materialism too. a typical family home is a mini mansion in that area. are homes that large really necessary? i know what i've said sounds bad, i guess i just don't understand?

sometimes negative is a good thing,if you are positive all the time,you may not see that pothole ahead

[sunshine girl2]

I'll add a few words - I recently moved back to Michigan for a great employment opportunity in Ann Arbor.

I lived in south Florida for 3 years prior, and in Chicago for 8 years before that. However, I grew up in MI and got my first degree from the UofM.

I've been back for 6 months and the apartment search has indeed been miserable. I've found only one updated rental that is within my (generous, I think) price range. It's crazy! I simply can't find anything close to the attractive, well-maintained/managed, newly updated, close-to-everything FL apartment I had. I'm willing to pay more, but I just can't find it. This, to me, is depressing!

I have reasons to stay (family, good job) and yet am still thinking of leaving... I'm trying to give Michigan a fair shot but the high income tax, terrible road conditions of this past winter, lack of new apartments, and failure of the government to enact a smoking ban have made this a state where "quality of life" is significantly lower for me.

To make a long story short, I'm not sure I'm going to stay. I'm a member of what everyone's calling the "creative class" (a well-educated, gainfully employed creative professional) and I don't have to stay here, I can find work elsewhere. I'd like to stay closer to family but Michigan has a long, long way to go in terms of the quality of life initiatives in comparison to my experiences elsewhere.

I doubt my post was helpful or relevant, but it feels good to get a little of this off my chest!

[PineHallGirl]

Originally Posted by Bydand

Not all small towns in Michigan are like this though. The town I live in just built a new school, remodeled 2 buildings and added a big wing on the High School. We are 1200 in town and 1700 in the schools. Once they changed the proposal so there was extra room for growth, the additional millage passed. Along with a second additional millage for a new water system, and a third to expand the public transportation system to new areas.



Only in some fields. I know "young, intelligent, degreed 20 somethings" who have stayed put and excelled in their field. As well as others who went away for school and brought their shiny new degrees back with them as soon as they got out and are doing well. To say it happens in a majority of the cases would be stretching the truth to a breaking point though I am afraid. I don't think we have reached the "Hundreds of thousands of displaced older workers" mark though. A lot of them yes, but not those numbers. Plus unless they have kept up their training they are no longer the most desirable workers, too expensive to pay for that experience without up to date training to go along with the experience you know.



The further you get from the SE corner, the less the Auto industry is felt. The town I live in doesn't have a thing tied to the auto industry, unless you count the mechanic and gas stations. For some us us who HAVE been away from Michigan and lived in some of those large urban areas (and rural areas in other states) you mentioned, we couldn't wait to get back here. Yes Michigan is behind the times in many areas. For some though those are the areas it is NICE to be behind the times in. Neighbors still help neighbors; people are still interested in helping their community ,if not grow, at least stay viable. Children can still go to the park to play, and meet their friends for a bike ride. The store owners still know who you are as a person, and not just a walking dollar dispenser they need to get as many of those dollars out of while in their place of business (we do have those as well though.)




To think that an entire States growth could mimic that of a few large cities isn't reasonable, but I think we know what you are trying to say. Detroit, Flint, & GR does have a long way to go. GR is closer than some of the other larger cities in the State, but has to work on issues in order to accommodate the growth they would like. Overall the State has a long way to go in revamping our industrialized output to something different and hopefully more diverse than it has been in the past.

I can see that leaving Chicago for most of the state would be hard to let go of if you like urban settings. It is a vibrant, awesome city. Good luck in getting back there if that is where you feel is best for you, I can think of about a million places that would be worse (and yes some of those million places are right here in Michigan.)

Bydand. I haven't been around these forums very long, but I have noticed how you can put everything into perspective.

[St Starseed]

Originally Posted by sunshine girl2

I'll add a few words - I recently moved back to Michigan for a great employment opportunity in Ann Arbor.

I lived in south Florida for 3 years prior, and in Chicago for 8 years before that. However, I grew up in MI and got my first degree from the UofM.

I've been back for 6 months and the apartment search has indeed been miserable. I've found only one updated rental that is within my (generous, I think) price range. It's crazy! I simply can't find anything close to the attractive, well-maintained/managed, newly updated, close-to-everything FL apartment I had. I'm willing to pay more, but I just can't find it. This, to me, is depressing!

I have reasons to stay (family, good job) and yet am still thinking of leaving... I'm trying to give Michigan a fair shot but the high income tax, terrible road conditions of this past winter, lack of new apartments, and failure of the government to enact a smoking ban have made this a state where "quality of life" is significantly lower for me.

To make a long story short, I'm not sure I'm going to stay. I'm a member of what everyone's calling the "creative class" (a well-educated, gainfully employed creative professional) and I don't have to stay here, I can find work elsewhere. I'd like to stay closer to family but Michigan has a long, long way to go in terms of the quality of life initiatives in comparison to my experiences elsewhere.

I doubt my post was helpful or relevant, but it feels good to get a little of this off my chest!

I also lived in Florida and then Chicago (where I'm moving from) and am going to do as you are...give it a fair shot.

Thanks to everyone who has posted here...it's good to know there are people putting thoughts into the future of the state.

I've recently (in the last week or so) began looking at it as a blank canvas. Lots of work needs to be done, so maybe I can be part of the solution.

[michigan83]

This thread has been interesting.

To me, a lot of these posts have an air of self-importance that I find somewhat aggravating.

"I am highly educated and enlightened, and Michigan just isn't progressive enough to suit my tastes."

I am a firm believer that there are positive and negative aspects to everything. Education is wonderful. But I also tend to believe that every year spent in higher education is one less year spent in the "real world." This is where people start to have a disconnect. Everything that is gained from time spent becoming "enlightened" has an equal and opposite "opportunity cost" of time not spent living an actual life.

So, basically... when you see a lack of enlightenment, it is probably just a deficit in your understanding of the "real world," due to a lack of time spent living therein.

This state is not backwards. Everyone else is. Thank you, and good eve.