[odinloki1]

Originally Posted by St Starseed

After spending all of my youth in metro Detroit and going to college in mid-Michigan, I left the state (in 2002). I have since lived in Washington (DC), Raleigh, Tampa Bay, and Chicago. And I feel like I understand the state of my youth less than ever.

And I'm coming back. My wife and I are moving to Northville, just south of Novi, at the end of March. In a stroke of luck, I landed a new full-time job, and my wife will have a new position in a week or so.

I have incredibly mixed feelings about this move.

And I could use your thoughts.

I'm not excited for it, like I have been for other moves; I'm actually rather scared.

Yes, 85%-90% percent of the people in the state are working, but how many are working in a satisfactory situation (running a business they love or in a position that is not underemployment)? Even the universities and hospitals are laying off people, which I find incredible.

We visited Michigan this weekend to scout apartments and were amazed to find how many were dilapidated; while this is kind of an exaggeration, it appears no new apartment construction has gone on since the 70s.

I like to think living in four regions of the country has given me a good perspective on what it takes in today's day and age to be happy and to lead a peaceful, social, and fulfilling life. And what's lacking in Michigan that I've found in other states is an energy to do things, to create, to get things moving and make things better. It's somewhat of an intangible quality, but it's rare to find it in Michigan (outside Ann Arbor). I'm overgeneralizing here, but Michiganders (board posters excepted, of course) often times seem to show a lot of indifference to what's going on outside their immediate lives or their state. I'm coming off sounding like an elitist snob, like I'm saying they should all be reading the New York Times and saving the whales, but the people there really do seem disengaged. There's a tendency to look back at how things were (when the Big 3 were doing better, or before the race riots) and wish for better days instead of looking toward the future and trying to improve it. This forum has a handful of examples in that regard. Agree/disagree?

Another poster on this board wrote "Michigan is bad because of its crappy, cold, non sociable, unmotivated, citizens who are plenty happy living in a dump." This is clearly not how most people feel (nor do I), but I cannot shake the idea that the people who make up the state's population are less happy than they could be. Maybe it's just the adults in my life, but they make life spectacularly more difficult than it needs to be. They worry a lot more. They see driving as a god-given right instead of the tax-funded privilege it is. And they are unnecessarily jingoistic about their state (here's a response to the above comment: "I don't think you are in Florida at all, but in Michigan...trying to create some grief...but we ain't buyin', got it?"). What is it about Michiganders that makes them seem less happy than other folks I've run into over the last seven years?

I mean, I'm getting unhappy just thinking about coming back to the state as I type this. I hope my emotions are misplaced, and I hope you might help me calm there with your words of wisdom. Keep in mind, again, I lived there for 22 years. I love swimming in Lake Michigan. I love fall colors. I love seeing the Mackinaw Bridge on I-75. Like anywhere you live, there are good things, and there are bad. But for the first time in my life, the negative seems to be outweighing the positive.

Thanks all.

I'm sorry its left such a bad impression on you with your visit. Where some people call Michiganders unmovitated, I'd like to think they have different priorities. Spending time with friends and family and enjoying one's life is more important than the all powerful dollar. Work is the means to enjoy life, not just the only thing in one's life. Thats what I think the unions brought, a decent lifestyle, not extravagent, just decent, for 40 hours a week. (Perhaps they got too greedy) Here in Tucson, which is definitely more like the coast it just isn't the same, you have to work much much harder for a decent living. I'm all for hard work but watching my life pass by with nothing but 60-70 hours of being unappreciated isn't worth it.

Thats my favorite thing about Michigan, so much free stuff to do. Its no money at all to go to the beach or go to a park and have a picnic. Buy a cheap kayak and drive it just a couple of miles and you will have no poblem finding a spot to put in.

Yes people are standoffish at first, but given a small amount of time, and you know what it is to be neighborly. Neighborhoods have some more stability vs. more transient areas, you know the kind of places where you could trust a neighbor to get your mail, instead of having to ask the post office.

Hope moving (or not moving) works out for you.

[michnewbie]

I've recently purchased a lake home in Michigan.
I moved in from the west coast. I've met a lot of very friendly people in michigan. Most of my neighbors live in Chicago. A big difference between locals and outsiders.
I find that local men of working age really don't appear to be ambitious. They would rather play than work.
I believe it all stems from the union hand out mind set.
"don't make it happen, let it happen". Hopefully auto business goes broke and most local's move out.
Give Detroit to the Canadians and most all problems would be solved. Michigan will be a wonderful.
I have a dream!

[darstar]

Don't include the UP in all the talk about Michigan. We are Michigan , in name only.........

Most of the UP is more connected to Wi. and Chicago , than Detroit. The area around the Bridge , is a different matter. Marquette is 340 miles to Chicago -- 540 to Detroit. We are part of the Northern tier, which includes Northern MN. , ND , MT , and some of the Canadian Provinces . The heritage of the locals reflect that.

[cbmsu01]

Originally Posted by michigan83

This thread has been interesting.

To me, a lot of these posts have an air of self-importance that I find somewhat aggravating.

"I am highly educated and enlightened, and Michigan just isn't progressive enough to suit my tastes."

I am a firm believer that there are positive and negative aspects to everything. Education is wonderful. But I also tend to believe that every year spent in higher education is one less year spent in the "real world." This is where people start to have a disconnect. Everything that is gained from time spent becoming "enlightened" has an equal and opposite "opportunity cost" of time not spent living an actual life.

So, basically... when you see a lack of enlightenment, it is probably just a deficit in your understanding of the "real world," due to a lack of time spent living therein.

This state is not backwards. Everyone else is. Thank you, and good eve.

Unfortunately, I think the attitude that "I'm too good for Michigan" from people who grow up there is quite commonplace.

I don't know... I think there are positive and negative aspects of this. Obviously, Michigan isn't for everyone. Some people thrive in fast paced, extremely progressive and hip places, and they're understandably going to want to go elsewhere. Same with people who hate cold or cloudy weather. Plus, leaving the state does open your eyes a bit to the real world, something of which has definitely helped me, regardless of whether I decide to return to Michigan someday or not - at least I got the experience of someplace else.

On the other hand, a lot of people just seem to have a lot of self-importance, and it has nothing to do with where they live.

[St Starseed]

Originally Posted by michigan83

This thread has been interesting.

To me, a lot of these posts have an air of self-importance that I find somewhat aggravating.

"I am highly educated and enlightened, and Michigan just isn't progressive enough to suit my tastes."

I am a firm believer that there are positive and negative aspects to everything. Education is wonderful. But I also tend to believe that every year spent in higher education is one less year spent in the "real world." This is where people start to have a disconnect. Everything that is gained from time spent becoming "enlightened" has an equal and opposite "opportunity cost" of time not spent living an actual life.

So, basically... when you see a lack of enlightenment, it is probably just a deficit in your understanding of the "real world," due to a lack of time spent living therein.

This state is not backwards. Everyone else is. Thank you, and good eve.

Really? The "real world?" Really? I've often thought, gee, if I spend enough time on a construction crew or stocking shelves at Meijer instead of broadening my horizons and my thinking through books and by surrounding myself with people smarter than me, then perhaps the magic of enlightenment will arrive. Instead of learning about the history of problems of the world and attempting to find solutions for them, I should just live ignorantly in the world and hope for the best.

My uneducated relatives are the most judgmental, prejudiced, unambitious, uninspiring people I know. They're also not very happy.

If all of the great people of Michigan have spent time in the freaking real world, then why is the state collapsing?

End rant. Sorry to poison the thread, but any line of reason that says spending time in the higher ed world destroys the value one can get by living in the "real world" is the kind of line of reason that I find problematic.

And I'm not self-important. I just want my home state to heal and I want people to help me understand how I can help it heal. It's a great place with unlimited potential.

[cbmsu01]

Originally Posted by St Starseed

Really? The "real world?" Really? I've often thought, gee, if I spend enough time on a construction crew or stocking shelves at Meijer instead of broadening my horizons and my thinking through books and by surrounding myself with people smarter than me, then perhaps the magic of enlightenment will arrive. Instead of learning about the history of problems of the world and attempting to find solutions for them, I should just live ignorantly in the world and hope for the best.

My uneducated relatives are the most judgmental, prejudiced, unambitious, uninspiring people I know. They're also not very happy.

If all of the great people of Michigan have spent time in the freaking real world, then why is the state collapsing?

End rant. Sorry to poison the thread, but any line of reason that says spending time in the higher ed world destroys the value one can get by living in the "real world" is the kind of line of reason that I find problematic.

And I'm not self-important. I just want my home state to heal and I want people to help me understand how I can help it heal. It's a great place with unlimited potential.

I'm usually positive about recommending moving to Michigan, but I would not recommend making the move for you. You already seem unhappy about it and seem to have your mind made up - which will just end up making it a self-fulfilling prophecy of negativity. I'd recommend going somewhere that better suits your needs.

[darstar]

A reflection of the majority of retired folks that move to Florida , ...for all the justified reasons.

Yet , stop in at any coffee clutch restaurant , or local bar , or senior center ,.... and you will hear how much better Michigan , or Ohio , or wherever up north is , or was...... Most people ether bring their problem with them , or , they quickly find faults in where they have moved too , or transplanted.

Sort of like the Guy or Gal , who constantly complains about the spouse to every one that will listen , when , all along , the fool is the complainer....who made the decision , its a reflection on he or her.

I try to find the good things , where ever I live , and , forget about the bad , after I have moved on to the next greener pasture........

[deslok]

St Starseed you're post is funny. I think the fact that your comments might rub some people in Michigan the wrong way illustrates the "if you don't think like this then leave" mentallity of the majority of the state.
I'd go to another state that has better weather and might actually be fun to live in, as opposed to dreary and depressing. Or you can stay here, and expect a few years of being told that you didn't live in the real world going to college.
Just because someone has the audacity to go to school does not mean that they are not going to ever live in the real world, especially nowadays with the way things are in the economy. Every day on the news, outside of your house or apartment, there is the real world blaring away, and it is for the most part not that much fun. When I return back to MI from trips, I am amazed that some people still ask silly things like "is the economic crisis in Michigan also?" I'd venture to say that for the most part, a large majority of us live in the real world. The key is finding out how not to while avoiding falling into an economic pit of doom. For some that might be blazing the cold weather going skiing, or living in a small community where nothing ever changes unless there was a nuclear war. For me, it is escaping the cold as much as possible, surrounding myself with educated, attractive people to be around, and not wasting time on people unable to see that there is more to life then complaining.

[MittenDweller82]

I'd like to believe those who have such a strong "proud" view of Michigan have traveled the US extensively, and have made their conclusion based on their travels..sadly many haven't. People that aren't native to Michigan, or who travel widely and return here must remember that Michigan's roots as a blue collar manufacturing entity are holding strong. Certainly this is controversial, and like many topics would yield a different opinion from person to person..but what would make that answer different would be simply: generational difference. People often forget how important this generational gap is in explaining the attitudes of wanting to relocate or how "horrible" a place is. In Michigan, small rural communities are comprised largely of middle aged adults who have established homes and no reason to want to relocate (unless their worlds are re-arranged by layoff, etc). I do feel this generation has great difficulty understanding the enormous changes that have occurred in the way the world operates, which fosters their negative opinion of those (usually younger people) who seek a brighter future with like minded individuals. Of course, if all college graduates could instantly obtain credit scores worthy of purchasing a new home, along with non-existent high wage positions.. WHY would our state be in such shambles? Its similar to watching 30 people aged 50+ standing in the "15 items or less line" with a "real cashier" at Meijer, when the U-Scan is empty and twice as fast. Overall, I expect the demographic shift to continue, more older adults will compromise Michigan, as a large number of college graduates continue to relocate, not to mention the baby-boomers will continue to age driving up the "mean" age of Michigan. Yes, there are people on these forums who would stay in Michigan well after the last job was gone and raccoons occupied their neighbors house, although that doesn't qualify them as "stupid", although I would say they very much in denial. But, good for those people, perhaps the raccoons will teach them survival skills...who knows.



It has been my experience when I was a college student, and even after that time meeting people who have traveled extensively or lived in various places across the us/world certainly have a negative view of Michigan on the lack of culture and progression that mirrors the country at large. It is sad to see many of the opinions on this forum formulated from people who openly admit they have been nowhere else but Michigan and care of nothing else, how can that be anything but ignorance? One must draw the line of reason, and denial, if after loosing your job you face foreclosure and your family is starving, touting the beauty of this state will do nothing to improve your affairs. Admitting that you care little of seeing beyond a 20 sq. mile plot of dirt your entire life is one thing, denying that your financial problems could be greatly improved by relocation is pure and utter denial. Pretty never paid the bills....but it is something that I can always come back to Michigan for.

[michigan83]

Yes, there are people on these forums who would stay in Michigan well after the last job was gone and raccoons occupied their neighbors house, although that doesn't qualify them as "stupid", although I would say they very much in denial. But, good for those people, perhaps the raccoons will teach them survival skills...who knows.

Good Lord. There's still 10,000,000 people living here. Yes, a ton are leaving, but you are being ridiculous.

The WORST thing about your post is that you are painting a state of 10,000,000 residents with such a broad brush. Everyone on this forum loves to make generalizations (which are useful, to an extent). But there is a point where you simply cannot make a blanket statement about an entire state. Any state. There is an enormous variety of viewpoints and lifestyles here, just like anywhere else.

So, please... get off your high horse. I've been to about 30 other states. I've traveled outside the U.S. I like it here. There's a few million others that do too. Please let go of your bitterness, whatever the source may be.