[St Starseed]

After spending all of my youth in metro Detroit and going to college in mid-Michigan, I left the state (in 2002). I have since lived in Washington (DC), Raleigh, Tampa Bay, and Chicago. And I feel like I understand the state of my youth less than ever.

And I'm coming back. My wife and I are moving to Northville, just south of Novi, at the end of March. In a stroke of luck, I landed a new full-time job, and my wife will have a new position in a week or so.

I have incredibly mixed feelings about this move.

And I could use your thoughts.

I'm not excited for it, like I have been for other moves; I'm actually rather scared.

Yes, 85%-90% percent of the people in the state are working, but how many are working in a satisfactory situation (running a business they love or in a position that is not underemployment)? Even the universities and hospitals are laying off people, which I find incredible.

We visited Michigan this weekend to scout apartments and were amazed to find how many were dilapidated; while this is kind of an exaggeration, it appears no new apartment construction has gone on since the 70s.

I like to think living in four regions of the country has given me a good perspective on what it takes in today's day and age to be happy and to lead a peaceful, social, and fulfilling life. And what's lacking in Michigan that I've found in other states is an energy to do things, to create, to get things moving and make things better. It's somewhat of an intangible quality, but it's rare to find it in Michigan (outside Ann Arbor). I'm overgeneralizing here, but Michiganders (board posters excepted, of course) often times seem to show a lot of indifference to what's going on outside their immediate lives or their state. I'm coming off sounding like an elitist snob, like I'm saying they should all be reading the New York Times and saving the whales, but the people there really do seem disengaged. There's a tendency to look back at how things were (when the Big 3 were doing better, or before the race riots) and wish for better days instead of looking toward the future and trying to improve it. This forum has a handful of examples in that regard. Agree/disagree?

Another poster on this board wrote "Michigan is bad because of its crappy, cold, non sociable, unmotivated, citizens who are plenty happy living in a dump." This is clearly not how most people feel (nor do I), but I cannot shake the idea that the people who make up the state's population are less happy than they could be. Maybe it's just the adults in my life, but they make life spectacularly more difficult than it needs to be. They worry a lot more. They see driving as a god-given right instead of the tax-funded privilege it is. And they are unnecessarily jingoistic about their state (here's a response to the above comment: "I don't think you are in Florida at all, but in Michigan...trying to create some grief...but we ain't buyin', got it?"). What is it about Michiganders that makes them seem less happy than other folks I've run into over the last seven years?

I mean, I'm getting unhappy just thinking about coming back to the state as I type this. I hope my emotions are misplaced, and I hope you might help me calm there with your words of wisdom. Keep in mind, again, I lived there for 22 years. I love swimming in Lake Michigan. I love fall colors. I love seeing the Mackinaw Bridge on I-75. Like anywhere you live, there are good things, and there are bad. But for the first time in my life, the negative seems to be outweighing the positive.

Thanks all.

[Cato the Elder]

Perhaps you're looking in the wrong place? Besides Ann Arbor, Oakland County is full of people who hail from outside MI and/or went to school out of state. Yes, there is a bit of a provincial attitude in spots, but this is true in many other major metros in the US - Philadelphia, Providence, Cleveland, Phoenix, Dallas, etc. I hope I'm not upending your worldview, but we Americans in general are just about the least international and most self-centered out of all the leading industrial nations. We typically don't see the world unless it comes to us - NYC, Chicago, LA, SF, Seattle, etc. are fortunate enough to have many immigrants who show their residents this on a daily basis. Even the vacations we take are little bubbles of America transplanted to destinations. Do you really think someone is really experiencing Mexico in Cancun or Egypt by staying in 4-star hotels and luxury buses?

On the flipside, metro Detroit is such a livable place - traffic, COL, etc are a breeze and it's not like you're in Timbuktu. There are plenty of world-class amenities as I'm sure you know. But in the end, you have to be happy. If this cannot happen in metro Detroit, I simply would not go unless I had no other options.

[Northman]

Yeah, really......why plant your life somewhere you don't feel good about? Did you seek out this job? Moving to a place you are already negative toward is NOT the way to become happy in the long run.

Personally, I love living in Michigan, and think the quality of life is better than some of the other spots I've lived (Texas, Georgia, Mass.), but the job situation is very unstable up here, and the government is a joke. Like you said, good with the bad.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by St Starseed

After spending all of my youth in metro Detroit and going to college in mid-Michigan, I left the state (in 2002). I have since lived in Washington (DC), Raleigh, Tampa Bay, and Chicago. And I feel like I understand the state of my youth less than ever.

And I'm coming back. My wife and I are moving to Northville, just south of Novi, at the end of March. In a stroke of luck, I landed a new full-time job, and my wife will have a new position in a week or so.

I have incredibly mixed feelings about this move.

And I could use your thoughts.

I'm not excited for it, like I have been for other moves; I'm actually rather scared.

Yes, 85%-90% percent of the people in the state are working, but how many are working in a satisfactory situation (running a business they love or in a position that is not underemployment)? Even the universities and hospitals are laying off people, which I find incredible.

We visited Michigan this weekend to scout apartments and were amazed to find how many were dilapidated; while this is kind of an exaggeration, it appears no new apartment construction has gone on since the 70s.

I like to think living in four regions of the country has given me a good perspective on what it takes in today's day and age to be happy and to lead a peaceful, social, and fulfilling life. And what's lacking in Michigan that I've found in other states is an energy to do things, to create, to get things moving and make things better. It's somewhat of an intangible quality, but it's rare to find it in Michigan (outside Ann Arbor). I'm overgeneralizing here, but Michiganders (board posters excepted, of course) often times seem to show a lot of indifference to what's going on outside their immediate lives or their state. I'm coming off sounding like an elitist snob, like I'm saying they should all be reading the New York Times and saving the whales, but the people there really do seem disengaged. There's a tendency to look back at how things were (when the Big 3 were doing better, or before the race riots) and wish for better days instead of looking toward the future and trying to improve it. This forum has a handful of examples in that regard. Agree/disagree?

Another poster on this board wrote "Michigan is bad because of its crappy, cold, non sociable, unmotivated, citizens who are plenty happy living in a dump." This is clearly not how most people feel (nor do I), but I cannot shake the idea that the people who make up the state's population are less happy than they could be. Maybe it's just the adults in my life, but they make life spectacularly more difficult than it needs to be. They worry a lot more. They see driving as a god-given right instead of the tax-funded privilege it is. And they are unnecessarily jingoistic about their state (here's a response to the above comment: "I don't think you are in Florida at all, but in Michigan...trying to create some grief...but we ain't buyin', got it?"). What is it about Michiganders that makes them seem less happy than other folks I've run into over the last seven years?

I mean, I'm getting unhappy just thinking about coming back to the state as I type this. I hope my emotions are misplaced, and I hope you might help me calm there with your words of wisdom. Keep in mind, again, I lived there for 22 years. I love swimming in Lake Michigan. I love fall colors. I love seeing the Mackinaw Bridge on I-75. Like anywhere you live, there are good things, and there are bad. But for the first time in my life, the negative seems to be outweighing the positive.

Thanks all.

If you are looking for people who are engaged in their community, who are "creators" and not parasites, and who read the NY Times (as an example), why are you looking to live in some far flung suburb like Northville? You will find yourself surrounded by doom-n-gloomers out there, guaranteed.

[DaniellaG]

I am from Oakland County West Bloomfield which is about 20 min or so from Northville which is a cute town. I am living in FL for the winter and was in Ca last year. Anyhow so like you have experience with a range of people and the pros and cons of each place. I think for you the major pro should be you and your wife have a job because many don't and that is in all states. I do agree that you hear negative from a lot of people in MI but even as I go on the other state forums you hear that about other states as well. Grass is always greener on the other side. I am in FL right now like I said and to me the people are less friendly here then in MI and I do agree that MI is not that friendly overall. I do feel a lot is the part you live in. I hope you are surprised and the move is better then you think. At least you are moving at the end of the winter. That is a positive and spring/summer is very nice in MI.

[sike0000]

Originally Posted by St Starseed

After spending all of my youth in metro Detroit and going to college in mid-Michigan, I left the state (in 2002). I have since lived in Washington (DC), Raleigh, Tampa Bay, and Chicago. And I feel like I understand the state of my youth less than ever.

And I'm coming back. My wife and I are moving to Northville, just south of Novi, at the end of March. In a stroke of luck, I landed a new full-time job, and my wife will have a new position in a week or so.

I have incredibly mixed feelings about this move.

And I could use your thoughts.

I'm not excited for it, like I have been for other moves; I'm actually rather scared.

Yes, 85%-90% percent of the people in the state are working, but how many are working in a satisfactory situation (running a business they love or in a position that is not underemployment)? Even the universities and hospitals are laying off people, which I find incredible.

There have been a lot of layoffs but I think that has been everywhere. I am definitely not underemployed. But as an automotive engineer I do consider myself lucky. We did have a couple of new hires a few weeks ago which I found surprising and a sign of hope.

Originally Posted by St Starseed

We visited Michigan this weekend to scout apartments and were amazed to find how many were dilapidated; while this is kind of an exaggeration, it appears no new apartment construction has gone on since the 70s.

I know what you are saying and for the most part its true. The suburbs have alot of old apartments that have never been updated (some of them are extremely overpriced the last I checked). I think this is because of everyone moving out farther and farther. You really have to go to the ouskirts of the cities to find anything that was built in the 90's or later.

Originally Posted by St Starseed

I like to think living in four regions of the country has given me a good perspective on what it takes in today's day and age to be happy and to lead a peaceful, social, and fulfilling life. And what's lacking in Michigan that I've found in other states is an energy to do things, to create, to get things moving and make things better. It's somewhat of an intangible quality, but it's rare to find it in Michigan (outside Ann Arbor). I'm overgeneralizing here, but Michiganders (board posters excepted, of course) often times seem to show a lot of indifference to what's going on outside their immediate lives or their state. I'm coming off sounding like an elitist snob, like I'm saying they should all be reading the New York Times and saving the whales, but the people there really do seem disengaged. There's a tendency to look back at how things were (when the Big 3 were doing better, or before the race riots) and wish for better days instead of looking toward the future and trying to improve it. This forum has a handful of examples in that regard. Agree/disagree?

I think Michiganders do not concern themsleves with things outside the state for two reasons. One, we are probably near the top of the list for states that have it worse than any other state, so why be concerned for the rest. Two, it has been like this a long time. We have been a blue collar state for so long (as in generations), how do you change a mindset? We are talking about a culture here that can't be changed overnight.

And the mindset doesn't help as we should be looking to other states for examples. I am not trying to make excuses and think that we realyl need to change our way of thinking. But it will take a long time.

Originally Posted by St Starseed

Another poster on this board wrote "Michigan is bad because of its crappy, cold, non sociable, unmotivated, citizens who are plenty happy living in a dump." This is clearly not how most people feel (nor do I), but I cannot shake the idea that the people who make up the state's population are less happy than they could be. Maybe it's just the adults in my life, but they make life spectacularly more difficult than it needs to be. They worry a lot more. They see driving as a god-given right instead of the tax-funded privilege it is. And they are unnecessarily jingoistic about their state (here's a response to the above comment: "I don't think you are in Florida at all, but in Michigan...trying to create some grief...but we ain't buyin', got it?"). What is it about Michiganders that makes them seem less happy than other folks I've run into over the last seven years?

I think it is the destroying of our way of life. I know that sounds weird but as I said, its been this way a long time.

I am not from Michigan, but have lived here most of my life, and I do find the people a little less friendly than other places. But that could be because the previous places I lived were overly friendly

Originally Posted by St Starseed

I mean, I'm getting unhappy just thinking about coming back to the state as I type this. I hope my emotions are misplaced, and I hope you might help me calm there with your words of wisdom. Keep in mind, again, I lived there for 22 years. I love swimming in Lake Michigan. I love fall colors. I love seeing the Mackinaw Bridge on I-75. Like anywhere you live, there are good things, and there are bad. But for the first time in my life, the negative seems to be outweighing the positive.

Thanks all.

You are getting an apartment and I think thats the best thing to do in case it turns out bad for you. Northville is a nice area. Can't comment on the apartments there though.

I believe there are some infrastructure issues here (take your pick). I need a 4x4 to drive down the freeway with all the potholes. But I think it has always been like that. And not just a MI issue either. The economy will probably get worse before it levels off for a while.

But, there are jobs here, the traffic is as worse as ever with people flocking to work, the sun will start to shine in a couple of weeks, and although I think peoples attitude has changed a little, we still know how to have fun

[michmoldman]

Where are all these mean, unfriendly people.... Detroit???
Once you get north of the Detroit area, I dont see too many unfriendly people.

[Crustedfilth]

Originally Posted by michmoldman

Where are all these mean, unfriendly people.... Detroit???
Once you get north of the Detroit area, I dont see too many unfriendly people.

just on the eastside. Everyone thinks they have a lot of money east of Dequindre

[pirate_lafitte]

I am not a native of Michigan, but I have relatives who have been there. From what I have read and researched, not all of Michigan is a bad place. There are some good places like Ann Arbor. The fact is, the largest city has so many ills that it makes the rest of the state look bad. Detroit was a city that came out with good vehicles and good music(Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin, Ted Nugent is from Detroit too). Now Motown isn't in Detroit and the big 3 are having problems. Where does this leave the citizens? For many, jobless and in poverty. Detroit's crime rate, along with Flint, Saginaw and Pontiac, makes things look really bad. If you get outside of Michigan and travel through the whole state, you can find beauty in it. Few people know Grand Rapids is where many of the nation's Bible's are made(Zondervan). You have the Cherry Festival in Traverse City,MI. Go up to the UP and it's like a different world. Travel the whole state, not just metro Detroit.

[Jwo85]

All these things have happen to me while living in Michigan with my experience in being around the suburbs and in the city of Detroit (Were I am considered a minority person of white decent to keep in mind)
someone says "bless you" when I sneeze
Someone says "thank you" all the time after I held the door open for them.
Someone holds the the door open for me all the time and I say "Thank You"
80% of the time when walking past a gentlemen, we do the nod the head exchange.

If this is unfriendly, then I agree Michigan is unfriendly.