View of MI (Detroit: real estate, housing, lease)

[GAisGreat]

Ok I've been posting on here about how great MI is. Relocated here a few months ago. Came from the South, lived in MI several years before that.

After a few months here, some observations. I have to admit, I guess I'm becoming more inclined to lean towards the negative people about this state.
Don't get me wrong, I love MI and am happy to be here. BUT...BUT...the prospects just seem SOOOOOOOO dismal!

I hate to say, but this state just seems so screwed. The reasons...<And I'm saying this after having defended them in the past>...The entitlement, union worker attitude is so strong here, it rules this state...Add to that completely incompetent politicians, both the Repubes and Demrats, I think MI has to be in the top 3 states of having just the most absolutely inept, idiotic, people in office. It is really so sad to listen to them, they have NO CLUE at all how to fix any of the problems the state is facing. Both sides are very much dependant on various special interest groups. So while these groups keep this state in the gutter because they control MI's politicians, everybody is suffering and the union/entitlement mentality is so strong, nothing gets fixed and everybody is moving away.

It truely is sad, this is such a great state, and we should easily be running circles around Minnesota, Georgia, Alabama, etc. in terms of growth and prosperity. Instead all of our people are moving to these places and making them prosperous.

[jbcorbin]

inGA,
Sad to say, but what you described can be said my many in every state.
I moved from Michigan 30 years ago just because I thought it was boring. Still do, but it's better than I thought at the time. I moved to California, then Georgia, now creeping into Florida. I have hear the same words in every state. It's what you make of it yourself.

[robjr100]

I`m a auto worker In the Detroit area.I work with many people who came from the south to work in the auto industry decades ago.One was telling me about his 40 year high school reunion he attented and how some of his old classmates bad mouthed the north and their union ways.He laughed and said most of them work two jobs to make payments on the double wide trailer they live in.Don`t knock unions.Unions raised many people`s standard of living in the country whether they belonged to a union or not.

Some southern people talk about "taking care of themselves".."we don`t expect a handout"...blah blah blah All the while their beloved neo-con president spends 100s of billions on bloated war contracts while cutting elderly heath care and filling social security with IOUs that will never be paid back.Let`s not forget running around the world making so called free trade agreements that only outsource more good american jobs and take tax revenue on every level.I won`t even talk about how Bush undercuts the american worker by backing illegals to take even more american jobs.

Attack on the middle class with the neo-cons leading the charge should be the focal point on what`s going on America not accusing people expecting entitlements.

[adler2u]

Hi all. I am new here,
I agree that unions were once needed, but if you look at michigan, this is a prime example of how a union can drive work out of a state.
I have an uncle who retired last year from "Generous motors" He was paid to listen to people complain about their jobs. sent 3 times a year to vegas for "seminars" and up north to the black lake retrete golf course.
For those who have jobs with the motor companys now I am sure they will fight for the idea.
But ask those who are laid off over the past years and I am sure they would rather be working to pay off their double wide then trying to find work in michigan now.
Mississippi just won the toyota plant, It will bring jobs to a bad economy.
Why did michigan loose? because of the unions and high taxes in michigan.
Michigan will continue to drive out jobs until the unions are brought under control.
There was a time when unions were needed big time.
But now unions are more a part of the problem the the soloution.
Just my 2 cents worth.

[GAisGreat]

Believe me, I'm not trying to "union bash". They are definately responsible for a lot of great things, and I do believe there are still some needs for them. And yes I agree with you about Bush.
But that being said, reality is here, good or bad, the world is changing, people are much more mobile nowadays, not too mention this whole global competition thing. No longer is the be born, get a job, get a house, retire, then die. Careers are becoming more and more rare, white and blue collar are on the cutting block everyday. Nobody is secure in their job. So here we have the rest of the country understanding that, but MI still trying to hold on to the glorious union heydays. Sorry but they are gone, MI is killing itself worrying about getting votes of people who's sole motivation is to keep guaranteed for themselves a high-paying job that requires little skill, to keep guaranteed that they will never lose this job regardless if there is a need for it, that they have the right to sit on their butts collecting a paycheck while they wait for a job to be created for them, etc.

These are the things the unions are fighting for, and these idiot politicians in MI worry more about making them happy than they do trying to get any businesses in the state that will create growth and break this dependency. Thus after 30yrs of the auto industry hurting this state off and on, here we are STILL joined at the hip with them and just waiting to come crashing down with them.

No I'm not blaming the union workers for the Big 3 downfall, mgmt is just as much at fault. But its time to grow up already. I actually read an article some Ford worker who had been there 7yrs was complaining about being bought out. He got 100 or 150k just for losing his job. And all he could do was complain and say he was moving South because there aren't any jobs here.
No, wow this is great, I can pay everything off, and get by until I find something else, no, wow this is great, I can go back to school and further myself so I can get a good job again soon, no, wow this is great I can try starting my own business. Nope just complaining that he was pulled off the nipple. Unfortunately too many of these people are controlling the fate of MI.

Sorry UAW, I don't think if your power is diminished it will do anything but help. For one we can actually become competitive again. I find it funny, this generation of people from the 70's, not including the ones who went to Vietnam, but the kids who graduated high school in the mid/late 70's, walked into a factory got a GREAT JOB paying GREAT, GREAT benefits, MANY MANY of them took full advantage of it, in other words 2 1/2hr lunches at the bar, very little motivation to work hard, or put an extra ounce of effort into their jobs than required, never saving for themselves, expecting the company to give it all to them, doing nothing to keep their healthcare costs down because it is all given to them, now they are just fit to tied that somebody dare tell them they need to sacrifice and start doing SOMETHING for themselves because the big 3 gravy train has dried up.
Sorry for the rant, it just kills me to see how much this mentality is doing to bring this great state down! And these loser politicians that cater to them and can't understand why nobody wants to come to MI.

[GAisGreat]

All the left in the state can come up with to fix the problems is that us TAXPAYERS and BUSINESSES aren't paying ENOUGH, so we need to pay more. They seem to purposely ignore the fact that a big reason the state is so badly short money is because everyone is leaving, thus reducing the collection rolls.

All the right can come up with is that we need to cut cut cut cut taxes, and make this state more like Alabama or Florida. Ignoring the fact that MI isn't even in the top 20 highest taxed states. Meanwhile many VERY prosperous states are much higher taxed than MI, i.e. Arizona, Minnesota, Massachussetts, New Jersey, Utah, Vermont, etc. Also ignoring the fact they had several years under the rule of King John to fix a lot of these problems and all they did was cut cut cut and get nothing in return so now we're left w/these HUGE budget shortfalls.

So both sides as usual, are helpless/clueless to do anything to fix the mess this state is in!

[Bhaalspawn]

Another issue is the state's regulations, including labor regulations, on businesses. I don't know much about them, but businesses regard them as a "tax" as well. Perhaps the state needs to wipe all laws involving regulations and taxes clean and start over with an exact copy of another, thriving state's laws.

Regarding the state's having to engage in a "race to the bottom", Michigan really doesn't have too much choice because of federal government policies exposing the state and the nation to global labor arbitrage (foreign outsourcing, mass immigration, foreign work visas such as the H-1B and L-1). Michigan is really just the canary in the coal mine in these regareds. Although I try not to get into it on this forum, my view is that the U.S. is transforming into a third world country. We already have the world's third largest population (behind the middle class havens of India and China) and a third world rate of population growth (32.7 million between 1990 and 2000, not counting illegal aliens). Perhaps Michigan would do better to prepare for the future by trying to be more like some of the Southern states since it's just inevitable, at least not without a huge change in the populace's politics. Now that the housing bubble is bursting and now that housing and mortgage debt will no longer carry the economy, the nation might get to see just how disastrous our international trade and mass immigration policies have been.

Perhaps the best bet for Michigan is to secede from the U.S. (and Detroit) and join Canada. Another one of my bright ideas is for Michgian to fully legalize marijuana as a way of stimulating the state's economy. If we legalized marijuana, a huge amount of people, including many retirees who want it for medical reasons, would flood into the state.

[Angel Bear]

I don't plan on staying here, but then again, I'm due for a change after living here most of my 35 years.

IMHO, Michigan is just going to have to shift and diversify its economy. Prior to the automotive industry being the center of our economy, we were an agricultural state. So, just knowing that alone, it means that we do have other options--we've done it before.

But, I'm not saying that it would be best for us to return to our agricultural roots. I think we need to look at other options like technology or making money on the Internet, etc. We could see what the financially successful states are doing and learn from them. Also, the automotive industry will still be around--it just will be downsized. People are going to have to change their mentalities regarding how to earn money, etc. People may have to go back to school to update their skills or to learn a new skill or trade.

In all of this transition, we're bound to have growing pains as a state. But, it will turn around--eventually.

I've been on these message boards a while now here and reading the posts on all the 50 states messages boards. It feels like most people on the message boards here either really despise where they live or really love it. This just illustrates to me that there are always pro's and con's about every place you live. I agree with the poster who said in this thread that it's about what you make of it. Life works that way IMHO

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Angel Bear

People may have to go back to school to update their skills or to learn a new skill or trade.

The media and the politicians love to say this, but it begs the question...

...retrain...for what?

At one time laid off manufacturing workers retrained--for computer programming--but then those jobs where shipped to India or filled by visa holders--so now they have to retrain again.

...retrain...reeducate...for what?

You might say nursing, but nursing isn't a magical field that exists in an economic vacuum and eventually we'll have enough nurses (what else is there to retrain for?).

I really don't know what to advise people today. We have too many MBAs and we have too many lawyers. We have too many Ph.D. scientists who can't find career jobs in their fields. (Know what a postdoctorate researcher is?) Engineering is generally a good field that's protected by a high barrier to entry (you have to be very good at math and love it), but even that field is facing competition from abroad. However, even if everyone had the mathematical ability needed to become an engineer the engineering field could only absorb so many people. Real estate is now a dead field with a huge over supply of realtors.

So, we're left with that critical question. Go to college...retrain and re-educate...for what? People can get diplomas that qualify them to compete in fields that are already full of people and I suppose that that's better than nothing. But what are the fields that have a shortage of people? Life sciences? Errrt! We already have a huge oversupply of Ph.D. scientists with life sciences degrees and large numbers of people with bachelors degrees in biology. Computers? Errrt! Those jobs were shipped to India.

Ironically, training for a blue collar field might not be such a bad move right now--provided that you train for a skilled trade, though that might not be the case now that the housing bubble has burst.

[mike jones]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

The media and the politicians love to say this, but it begs the question...

...retrain...for what?

At one time laid off manufacturing workers retrained--for computer programming--but then those jobs where shipped to India or filled by visa holders--so now they have to retrain again.

...retrain...reeducate...for what?



Ironically, training for a blue collar field might not be such a bad move right now--provided that you train for a skilled trade, though that might not be the case now that the housing bubble has burst.

Those of you "working class heroes" out there just do not get it.
The days of just squeaking out of high school hoping your dad would get you a job in the plant are over with.

For example the foreign auto plants down south require you to have a bachelors degree to work many jobs on the assembly line.

Q.What do those who have a GED or high schol diploma say to those of us with advanced degrees?

A.Can I take your order please!