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I'm having a problem with our new neighbor

I have lived in our house for 7yrs. Our road/fences were like they are now when we bought the house.. We added nothing to the front of our house. Our neighbors house has been thru 4 other owners in time we have lived here. The road we live on is a private road. The township does NOT take care of it at all.. There are about 10 houses on our road total.. The problem I am having is a little complicated... So please bear with me

Our house is the last house on the road. We "use" the end of the road as a small part of our driveway then our drive turns towards our house in an "L" shape. At the very begining part of our drive is a large cement parking space that starts at the currents road edge and goes towards our house about 15 ft. Our new neighbors current driveway is directly across from our cement parking space. Our road at the end is only about 15 ft wide (its private and VERY narrow and the end of the road).. The problem we are having is that she is upset that I have to use her driveway to back up my car into our parking space. There is a tree in the way of my backing my truck (suburban) if I was to pull in frontways anyways.. not to mention our road is so narrow that I have to use a small part (maybe 10 ft) of her drive(which is over 150'long) is be able to pull in my big truck..She came over here on Christmas Eve night and threated her 4 brothers on us if we pulled into her driveway again.. So I called the townships sherriffs dept. and they said by-law that I or anyone can pull into a driveway as a right of way and that she couldnt put a fence up(at the border of her property and the road) or anything to keep that from happening.. So now she is upset about that.. So she called in the land surveyors. They are here today and have put stakes in where her property corners are at.

The PROBLEM is that her pro. line is actually about 5 ft into where the road is and has been for over 40 yrs. I have a fence where my drive starts (past the cement parking area) and she has a fence there bordering her property (even though her fence is in her pro. about 10 ft.)( So just to clarify.. her fence is 10 feet into her property then my driveway which is about 10 ft wide then my fence...) SO.... Technically I cant drive onto my property w/o driving thru hers first with how the road is set up... She told me previously that she didnt care how the road was that I had to rip down my fence if I wanted access to my drive/garage. BTW back in the 80s all the current land owners decided to move the road about 10 ft her way to get the road away from our side so it wasnt so close to the houses on this side.

SO..... My ???s are...

Since the road, fences and supposed property has already been set up this way for at least the last 20 yrs... is that "grandfathered" in?
Do we have to move our fence, road?
What are the laws and where could I go to find out?
I went to the township once before and they just had a map to show is... they wouldnt come out since its a private road.

Please HELP before theres WWIII on our small county road!!!!!

Thanks in advance!!!! Much appreciated!!!

[magellan]

Originally Posted by needing more

I'm having a problem with our new neighbor

I have lived in our house for 7yrs. Our road/fences were like they are now when we bought the house.. We added nothing to the front of our house. Our neighbors house has been thru 4 other owners in time we have lived here. The road we live on is a private road. The township does NOT take care of it at all.. There are about 10 houses on our road total.. The problem I am having is a little complicated... So please bear with me

Our house is the last house on the road. We "use" the end of the road as a small part of our driveway then our drive turns towards our house in an "L" shape. At the very begining part of our drive is a large cement parking space that starts at the currents road edge and goes towards our house about 15 ft. Our new neighbors current driveway is directly across from our cement parking space. Our road at the end is only about 15 ft wide (its private and VERY narrow and the end of the road).. The problem we are having is that she is upset that I have to use her driveway to back up my car into our parking space. There is a tree in the way of my backing my truck (suburban) if I was to pull in frontways anyways.. not to mention our road is so narrow that I have to use a small part (maybe 10 ft) of her drive(which is over 150'long) is be able to pull in my big truck..She came over here on Christmas Eve night and threated her 4 brothers on us if we pulled into her driveway again.. So I called the townships sherriffs dept. and they said by-law that I or anyone can pull into a driveway as a right of way and that she couldnt put a fence up(at the border of her property and the road) or anything to keep that from happening.. So now she is upset about that.. So she called in the land surveyors. They are here today and have put stakes in where her property corners are at.

The PROBLEM is that her pro. line is actually about 5 ft into where the road is and has been for over 40 yrs. I have a fence where my drive starts (past the cement parking area) and she has a fence there bordering her property (even though her fence is in her pro. about 10 ft.)( So just to clarify.. her fence is 10 feet into her property then my driveway which is about 10 ft wide then my fence...) SO.... Technically I cant drive onto my property w/o driving thru hers first with how the road is set up... She told me previously that she didnt care how the road was that I had to rip down my fence if I wanted access to my drive/garage. BTW back in the 80s all the current land owners decided to move the road about 10 ft her way to get the road away from our side so it wasnt so close to the houses on this side.

SO..... My ???s are...

Since the road, fences and supposed property has already been set up this way for at least the last 20 yrs... is that "grandfathered" in?
Do we have to move our fence, road?
What are the laws and where could I go to find out?
I went to the township once before and they just had a map to show is... they wouldnt come out since its a private road.

Please HELP before theres WWIII on our small county road!!!!!

Thanks in advance!!!! Much appreciated!!!

Seek professional help (I mean a real estate attorney). Real estate laws in Michigan regarding encroachments and easements are somewhat complicated.

The other option would be to talk with the Michigan Association of Realtors or your local real estate board and see if they provide free legal advice about property rights.

I would be leery of taking action regarding your fence or your neighbor based on advice on a public forum.

[Bydand]

You beat me to it magellan. Just exactly what I was going to say.

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This is our first house so this has never been an issue for us before.. So I was hoping to hear from someone who knows a little more about these kinda things then I do.

I did call the Township and explained it to the assessors office. He said that I should contact a lawyer as well.. But I kinda see it as if she plans on taking legal action then she should do it first. Everything has been that way for over 20 yrs now. I have to have some legal rights to hows its been that way for so long.. I know she just cant come ripe up our fence one day. Can she? Not to mention she would have to pay big $$$ to have our whole road moved then if she is going to get stinky about it. She doesnt work so I cant imagine her having any $$$ to do that...lol

[magellan]

Originally Posted by needing more

This is our first house so this has never been an issue for us before.. So I was hoping to hear from someone who knows a little more about these kinda things then I do.

I did call the Township and explained it to the assessors office. He said that I should contact a lawyer as well.. But I kinda see it as if she plans on taking legal action then she should do it first. Everything has been that way for over 20 yrs now. I have to have some legal rights to hows its been that way for so long.. I know she just cant come ripe up our fence one day. Can she? Not to mention she would have to pay big $$$ to have our whole road moved then if she is going to get stinky about it. She doesnt work so I cant imagine her having any $$$ to do that...lol

I would stop going to the township, first of all. They are actually likely to give you bad information. In fact, our township won't touch property disputes with a ton-foot pole (unless it is government land in question).

If you are trying to save money by not talking to an attorney, you will pay dearly in the end. Do you know if there is a legal easement through her property from when the property owners decided to move the road? Or was it by handshake? If there's no recorded easement, you could end up getting screwed a lot moreso than just losing your fence. Basically she has to (legally) grant "access", but access can be very subjective in a court of law (if it gets to that).

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The township said that they dont get into any of it either but that I could come down and make copies of any maps there.

Its not nessecarily about saving $$$. I just think if she goes to one then she'll have to do it first, THEN we will get one.

I looked up Adverse Possession and it seems like it totally pertains to us. It has been this way for 16+yrs. Which we have used it like our own property (which we thought it was) for over 7 yrs now. Which might be past the statue of limitations here in MI.

As far as who/when they moved the road... All I know is that the previous owner (who died around 1990) approved the other neighbors to move the road over inot his property. We still have one home owner who still lives on this road and has lived here since the 60s... he said he remembers all of it. I dont think anything was done in writing or else the surveyors would have known about it in the land description, right?

But I still seem to think that adverse possession gives us the right to the little bit of land.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by needing more

The township said that they dont get into any of it either but that I could come down and make copies of any maps there.

Its not nessecarily about saving $$$. I just think if she goes to one then she'll have to do it first, THEN we will get one.

I looked up Adverse Possession and it seems like it totally pertains to us. It has been this way for 16+yrs. Which we have used it like our own property (which we thought it was) for over 7 yrs now. Which might be past the statue of limitations here in MI.

As far as who/when they moved the road... All I know is that the previous owner (who died around 1990) approved the other neighbors to move the road over inot his property. We still have one home owner who still lives on this road and has lived here since the 60s... he said he remembers all of it. I dont think anything was done in writing or else the surveyors would have known about it in the land description, right?

But I still seem to think that adverse possession gives us the right to the little bit of land.

Ahhh, you're sucking me in. I have to bow out of the discussion now. Maybe others have had similar situations. Good luck!

Oh, and we don't normally link to other forums here, but here is one that might be of help:

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=209

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Thanks for your 2cents Magellan

BTW When my husband came home he couldnt get into the driveway with the stakes in the middle so he called the police and asked if he could remove them. They said yes.. She came out and started yelling so my husband called the police to come out. They came out and told her that if she was going to take us to court that she should stay off of the ??'d property till its decided in court. Now she has her whole family over looking out the window checking us out...lol BTW The police did agree with us that there is squatters rights and it was common courtesy to use the fences as borders on both propertys. I did also call the previous owner who lived there in 93-2005 and he said that the fences were like that when he bought the house in 93 and had been there a long time since they were all rusted back then.. Also that he would come to court with us

Any more advice from anyone??
Looks like we'll have to get a lawyer

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I posted this ??? on another forum.. Most of the people basically told my that I have to get a lawyer, it'll cost BIG $$$ (est. 20k) and that she has more right to it then us.. But everything I am reading about adverse possession says that possession is 9/10th of the law and that our case is extremely solid since our property land owners have been using that strip of "her" land for over 40 yrs w/o knowing it.

So now I'm not sure what to do???? We can't afford a lawyer at this time but we have to be able to drive into our driveway too... I did go over there and try to talk to her and she basically said that it was out of her hands and that the survey Co. was the ones taking us to court and they were paying her bill for it.. I thought it was BS.. Does anyone know about this???? Do they do that????

Thanks!!!!!

[magellan]

Originally Posted by needing more

I posted this ??? on another forum.. Most of the people basically told my that I have to get a lawyer, it'll cost BIG $$$ (est. 20k) and that she has more right to it then us.. But everything I am reading about adverse possession says that possession is 9/10th of the law and that our case is extremely solid since our property land owners have been using that strip of "her" land for over 40 yrs w/o knowing it.

So now I'm not sure what to do???? We can't afford a lawyer at this time but we have to be able to drive into our driveway too... I did go over there and try to talk to her and she basically said that it was out of her hands and that the survey Co. was the ones taking us to court and they were paying her bill for it.. I thought it was BS.. Does anyone know about this???? Do they do that????

Thanks!!!!!

Why would the survey company take you to court? What harm have you caused them? Sounds like she's more than a bit confused.

I do know that she can't block access to your property, since you've already been using her property to get there. I believe it falls under easement by necessity or easement by prescription. The downside is that it might not stop her from taking you to court. You're probably going to lose the fence.