[chiroptera]

Doesn't stun me one bit. Not with the dismal graduation stats in cities like Detroit. I know someone who makes $60K with full bennies a year running a forklift for GM and he is absolutely, completely illiterate. Cannot understand a bank statement, can't write a check, nothing. He's in his 50s, has worked there 20 years or so, and if his job goes away he is screwed.
But it's his own fault - his wife has given up urging him to go get tutoring.

I was a volunteer adult literacy tutor in another state and you'd be amazed at the number of people who cannot read or wite. Many of them far from stupid, and adept at hiding it, some you'd never suspect. Of course the people who came into the literacy program were the ones with more smarts and determination to get ahead so probably not representative of the illiterate population as a whole.

Originally Posted by Jwo85

Some stunning news coming out.



Time to break cycle of no skills, no jobs | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

[magellan]

Originally Posted by scottmi

Not every single American is spoiled...

Please do not respond to this poster. He has been banned from city-data.

Thanks and have a great Michigan weekend!

[Cliffie]

The problem with the "service economy" idea, which I've been hearing for 30 years is inevitable, is that we can't ALL be each other's servants. A service-based economy is no more balanced than a manufacturing-based one. We need basic production like farming and mining, and manufacturing, and services, and retail, and the professions.

But I think the problem is that the cost of living has to somehow go down enough so that if all we can get are fast-food jobs, all we NEED are fast-food jobs. Infrastructure needs to be good enough so that we aren't constantly being bankrupted by normal wear and tear on our houses or ourselves. If we can't afford our own cars, then there damned well needs to be public transportation.

[Mama Pam]

It is too bad about Michigan.....it is SO much more than a car-industry state and yet we put all of our eggs in the car basket and now look !! The state of Michigan is SO beautiful and has what no other state has.....fresh water! Miles and miles of sugar-sand beaches . I see they hit it hard with their 'Pure Michigan' commercial campaign.....very well-done advertisements showing the diverse beauty and attractions in Michigan.....has this helped?? I know it has always depended a lot on tourism and I was wondering how many tourism dollars are still being made in Michigan. I saw on the Charlevoix Courier website that they actuallly had a great turn-out of tourists for their annual Venetian Festival....so I was wondering how it is going in other tourists towns (Frankenmuth??).

But, as we all know, elections have consequences and Jennifer Granholm will finally be out of there. Who is running for governor on the Conservative side? Dear God...please help the state of Michigan and please help this country....I love Michigan....and we had to leave for work but my girls and I want to return so badly...we are true 'water people' and miss our beach towns on the west side of the state. My master electrician husband left in 2007 for Boise, Idaho then went on to Bozeman, Montana.....and that was pretty (lots of libs in town...however, living in the crappy, run-down dirty little houses with un-mown lawns just off of Main Street..which was actually quite nice). My girls and I eventually were able to join him in Montana after we pretty much gave our house away to some folks who saw it on-line and bought it without actually seeing it....at a hell of a deal....9 yr old home on 10 wooded acres...up on a hill....magazine perfect home...ah well...no work for my husband....what could we do...?

THEN the boom in Bozeman, Montana fizzled out and my husband was laid off from the work he had in the ultra-exclusive area of Big Sky ! Million dollar ski homes! He will go wherever to get work and actually did a stint in Alaska which paid very well and he would love to get back up there but after that short-term assignment, he got a job immediately in Gillette, Wyoming where the folks still appreciate the value of coal and electricity. Ha. ( I wonder how long that will last....'o' and the gang in Washington will soon be telling us to warm our home by candle light ...) Lots and lots of young people with their beautiful pick-up trucks here for work due to the coal and electrical power plant industry.

However, Gillette is not a pretty town...it is barren and very, very, very, very windy...severe storms roll through just about every day which freaks out my little girl. There is not a single campground here as this is NOT a destination for tourists...strictly work. Very dirty accept for the police stations, fire station, library, etc. that look new due to the revenues from the energy industry here.

I will have to say that for all of the natural beauty our west, the towns usually have huge portions that are so dirty. Even the true western-style town of Sheridan, Wyoming is so dirty. We were eating at a McDonald's and you would not believe the site outside the windows. Amazing. A lot of crappy, dirty home everywhere in these western towns where nobody takes pride in what they have,no matter how humble. I don't get it. It seems to me that the towns in Michigan are so, so much cleaner....maybe all of our trees hide a lot!! Ha! For example, out west here where it is very open and few trees, one can see miles and miles of junked cars and farm machinery...

So...........we miss our Michigan.....is there any hope? My sister told me that she heard about the plans for a coal plant in the Bay City area? What does anyone know about that....oh...and speaking about Jennifer Granholm's plans for wind energy...when we were moving out west and drove through Minnesota (I think if was Minnesota...lots of driving...a blur) there was an area that had a LOT of these huge, white windmills and the one word that came to my mind is....CREEPY....it just looked creepy seeing those things...hard to explain...I had never seen anything like that and when we were driving along on that open rode with wide open spaces and blue sky...then to see all of those...just creepy....and then I hear they have trouble harnessing the wind energy ANYWAY...so just like with a lot of things....libs only look at the INTENTIONS and NOT the RESULTS......ya know....wind energy seems just so cool but is it really able to meet our energy needs....??

I could go on and on....pray for Michigan....pray for our country....God hear our pleas, please...

[Jwo85]

Originally Posted by Mama Pam

It is too bad about Michigan.....it is SO much more than a car-industry state and yet we put all of our eggs in the car basket and now look !! The state of Michigan is SO beautiful and has what no other state has.....fresh water! Miles and miles of sugar-sand beaches . I see they hit it hard with their 'Pure Michigan' commercial campaign.......

They missed one major detail
Michigan beaches among dirtiest in U.S. | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Mama Pam

he got a job immediately in Gillette, Wyoming where the folks still appreciate the value of coal and electricity. Ha. ( I wonder how long that will last....'o' and the gang in Washington will soon be telling us to warm our home by candle light ...) Lots and lots of young people with their beautiful pick-up trucks here for work due to the coal and electrical power plant industry.

when we were moving out west and drove through Minnesota (I think if was Minnesota...lots of driving...a blur) there was an area that had a LOT of these huge, white windmills and the one word that came to my mind is....CREEPY....it just looked creepy seeing those things...hard to explain...I had never seen anything like that and when we were driving along on that open rode with wide open spaces and blue sky...then to see all of those...just creepy....and then I hear they have trouble harnessing the wind energy ANYWAY...so just like with a lot of things....libs only look at the INTENTIONS and NOT the RESULTS......ya know....wind energy seems just so cool but is it really able to meet our energy needs....??

.

The best path to take is toward energy diversification, and further away from more reliance on coal. Coal is by far the dirtiest way to generate electricity that we have available. No one really wants to live on top of a coal plant, yet we have millions of people in metropolitan areas living next to power plants that are 50+ years old that are grandfathered into the system.
The big time coal lobbyists want to maintain the status quo. The produces want to privatize all of the profits from the very lucrative energy extractive industries while externalizing the health and environmental costs of burning coal onto the taxpayers. Many people are tired of this "business as usual" approach.
I see some definite problems with cap and trade, and I think it should do more to lower costs for lower income consumers. Small businesses should also pay lower electricity costs while big businesses should pay more. That should be the stopgap approach. Consumers should also be given tax rebates and incentives for make energy efficiency upgrads to their house to save money. I don't like politicians who only see it as a black and white issue. I see it as a grey area filled with compromise and rationality.
In terms of wind energy, you were seeing many large scale wind farms out in the cornbelt of IA and MN. These two states have been leaders in wind energy development which has provided a diversification of employment in agriculturally dependent counties. Wind turbine technology is increasing in efficiency all the time, but it will likely never soley provide baseload power. It DOES take some needed strain of the power grid, and provide less of an incentive to build more dirty coal plants.
I am not quite as familiar with the Powder River Basin operations in WY and MT, but clean coal is a complete oxymoron. If you have ever been to WV and seen the mountaintop removal operations there then you would know what I am talking about. WV has high sulfur coal- so much of that gets shipped to China because environmental regulations do not even exist over there for the most part.
In terms of baseload generation we have a conundrum when it comes to increasing generation capacity. Most people don't like coal, they cringe when they think of nuclear (we still don't have a long term disposal facility for the waste), and natural gas is expensive (the US has a dwendling supply of it).
So, we are left with turning to renewable energy sources like wind and solar as well as utilities focusing intently on energy efficiency to reduce baseload demand growth. It is not fiscally responsible anymore for utilities to rely on one energy source for baseload generation. Prices for coal can flucuate widely depending on the global economy- with China seeing big demand growth. This, in turn, can increase electricity prices. The US must diversify its energy portfolio- and quickly.

[michigan83]

They missed one major detail
Michigan beaches among dirtiest in U.S. | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

That headline is a little misleading.

It sounds like there's a problem with water quality (which is nothing to overlook.)

Michigan's beaches are very clean and some of the most beautiful anywhere. That's obvious to anyone who steps foot on them. To say that our beaches are dirty is a complete joke.

Sounds like swimming is a bad idea in some spots though.

[michigan83]

oh...and speaking about Jennifer Granholm's plans for wind energy...when we were moving out west and drove through Minnesota (I think if was Minnesota...lots of driving...a blur) there was an area that had a LOT of these huge, white windmills and the one word that came to my mind is....CREEPY....it just looked creepy seeing those things...hard to explain...I had never seen anything like that and when we were driving along on that open rode with wide open spaces and blue sky...then to see all of those...just creepy....

[quote]

That is so true!!! Those things creep me out. They are way more of an eyesore than any single power plant could ever hope to be. I hate those things. Please don't tell me that putting these things everywhere is going to be our energy solution.

Some wind power picks from Michigan's thumb:

[GraniteStater]

[quote=michigan83;10058322]

That is so true!!! Those things creep me out. They are way more of an eyesore than any single power plant could ever hope to be. I hate those things. Please don't tell me that putting these things everywhere is going to be our energy solution.

Some wind power picks from Michigan's thumb:

The asthetics of wind turbines are subjective. Wind energy does not produce the health and environmental damage that coal plants do. Coal plants produce: nitrogen oxide, sulfur dioxide, radiation, mercury, and carbon dioxide. Wind farms produce none of these toxins.

[michigan83]

The asthetics of wind turbines are subjective. Wind energy does not produce the health and environmental damage that coal plants do. Coal plants produce: nitrogen oxide, sulfur dioxide, radiation, mercury, and carbon dioxide. Wind farms produce none of these toxins.

Not subjective: Visually, wind farms affect more of the landscape. 50 windmills spread out across the rural horizon? Or one billowing smokestack that is only visible within a 5 mile radius?

Environmental impact aside, I would rather not look at a swarm of hideous windmills.

Also, it's not like we only have coal and wind power to choose from. There are better options than coal that are less visually disturbing than wind power.