[bluebird39]

We lived in Southern Oregon, but on the I-5 corridor, so it was a much more "urban" area than up here, BUT, we were much farther away from any big city (5 hours from Portland, 7 from San Fran). The cost to go the the family doctor is MUCH cheaper here, but I'm stunned at the lack of hours here vs there. Doctors there didn't like call either, but there were more urgent care, hospitalists, and to have an office with not even a call service working was unheard of. Waits to see specialists in S Oregon were incredibly long... 3-6 months. I haven't faced this up here. Many docs there refused to take new medic-aid of medi-care patients, or any new patients period. The first thing you asked a doctor in S Oregon was "Are you taking new patients". Their next response was "What kind of insurance do you have?" I don't see that game here. I know medical mal-practice insurance was much more expensive in Oregon than here. So bottom line, even though we were in a "large town/small city", it was still bad.

[Swansen]

Originally Posted by michsnowlvr

Unemployment was not 13.9% two weeks ago. 15.2% is the figure for June, 14.1% for May, 13.9% was in April. Its the highest since 1983, not since the Great Depression.

And yes, the true unemployment is probably higher than the 15%. But that goes for other places too, not just MI. Its getting a little old having people think the grass is greener everywhere else....that is simply not the case.

.. well, i missed a month in my memory.. but ether way, doesn't change the fact that it rose quickly. Yes, the grass is greener because MI's economy was absolutely and completely based around the automotive industry and the big three, both of which are doing very poorly right now. With that bombshell, unemployment wasn't measured the same way it was back then as it is now, the highest unemployment rate observed during the great depression was 25%, so yeah, we are there, more or less.

"Doom and Gloom" ??? its nice that you haven't been effected by anything that has been going on for what four/five years now, but the rest of us feel it. If you don't remember we have been dealing with a recession for a long time now, its become a part of life for everyone here for so long while the rest of the nation is just starting to experience this stuff. We previously had the unemployment rate the rest of the nation has now and we had that rate for awhile.

On GM, i have no remorse for that company, and you CANNOT blame the Unions for everything, fault lies with them just as it does with GM execs, as they are still making millions while they get rid of nearly their entire US workforce. They ran the company into the ground, for GM not listening to its workers, and then the Unions for loosing sight of their original reasons for being. In these times, i do not want to think of work like that without unions present, we will see the return of very unfit working conditions.

Um, how is cheap labor good for anything?? really?? some one some where is still making billions?? so the rest of us live in poverty because they don't want to pay us?? No, at this point i say screw the corporations, we need to completely stop outsourcing all together, it should be EXTREMELY expensive to do business overseas for what will end up here, but that won't happen because to many richies would loose to much. At that, apposition says that it will cause all the corporations to leave the US, fine, let them leave. Then we stop buying their "things" and we just centralize, make America sweet again, bring the community back.

Whats happening in the US is called Global Labor Arbitrage
What is Global Labor Arbitrage? - Welcome Mat - Third World America forums - Foreign Outsourcing and Illegal Immigration -- Third World America forums - Message Board - Yuku

[Huckleberry3911948]

2 things guna happe. 1st inflation, then deflation.
chiken lickin has come in and out, but he is not the 10 oclock news.

[Sparrow_temp]

While this is true, it's also true that property taxes and utility costs (ie carrying costs) have to be overcome to make a profit. How long will it take for MI to make a come back? It might be a decade or more.

I personally think there's a lot of bad yet to come.

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

The equity market has a simple rule of thumb, which it to buy low and sell high. One should think of Michigan, in the long term, as an undervalued stock.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Swansen

..... dude..... what the crap.... SO, being about the 4% that actually has a handle on how poor MI's condition is... i planned on working/saving and moving next summer... but from two weeks ago, it was 13.9... it went up a whole percent in such a short period. DOES NO ONE REALIZE WE HAVEN'T SEEN THESE KINDS OF UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION??? !!!!!!!! WE ARE IN A F'N DEPRESSION, WHAT THE CRAP! WHY DOESN'T ANYONE UNDERSTAND THIS...

sorry for that, but for everything that the media isn't, you would at least think a number like 15% would grab the attention of some one...

I would say the real unemployment is like 20-24% .... only a quarter of the state, no big deal... holy ish, worst part is i just moved out of one place into another place with some friends... guess moving again won't be a big deal at this point.... as going to school isn't a reality as i won't be able to save a dime while doing so... SERIOUSLY! THIS IS SO SURREAL!! ....

WTF are you talking about? Are you actually making the claim that the media doesn't talk endlessly day after day, night after night, minute after minute about the dire state of the economy? Are you actually truly seriously making that claim? Do you actually read a newspaper or watch TV news?

[krock1dk]

I used to live in MI, but my parents and sister are still back there. I moved to AZ in 2005 and, quite frankly, things are not much better here. Michigan actually has the advantage of Arizona, since it has industry and produces goods...Arizona has no industry of any kind and has an economy reliant on small business, low paying service industries that dont produce a paycheck or income. And dont even get me started on its two largest industries (housing construction and tourism) being all but gone. Ladies and gents, I feel your pain. The economy here in AZ is nowhere near turning around, and people also arent moving here like they used to.

[gwinn_raptor]

I thought i read somewhere that the unemployment rate is like 8-9% in Arizona, is that correct?

Not being smart, just asking.

If 8-9% is bad for Arizona, how bad would it feel if it was 15% like Michigan is currently. Michigan is normally around 7-8-9% unemployment.....which doesn't feel as bad as it does right now.

There is a county just North of Marquette that is over 24% unemployment currently.....not counting the people that are not on unemployment right now because of their benefits running out. It sucks!

I understand that this nations problems do not solely fall on Michigans shoulders or that michigan is the only state effected.......but man it sure seems like we as a state keep getting kicked while we are down. It just seems to keep getting worse and worse.

[gradstudent77]

Where the jobs are - Pinal County, AZ (1) - Money Magazine

People in MI need to migrate. Just like the midwest fled to Cali during the dust bowl, people in high unemployment areas of the country need to move on to places with jobs. I remember reading somewhere that Bismarck, ND was doing pretty well relatively.

People who own homes but have really dim job prospects might even want to sell their homes and move someplace cheap outside the US where they could effectively retire on the proceeds from selling their home.

[Mistoftime]

Thank your politicians who don't represent you, Congress for NAFTA, The sellouts in Washington who have their self interest at heart, and we are still putting hope in our government to make things better???

[MittenDweller82]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

The equity market has a simple rule of thumb, which it to buy low and sell high. One should think of Michigan, in the long term, as an undervalued stock. Right now the bad economy is lowering wages and lowering asset prices, like homes. Unions are being emasculated. In other words, the cost of doing business and the cost of living is being reduced in the state. Let’s remember that the reason that many companies moved South was due to their cheaper labor cost (right to work states) and lower cost of living. Michigan had trouble competing because it had high labor cost (via Unions) and a high cost of living relative to many Southern States. So the pain Michigan is experiencing now is actually making it more competitive for the future.

It’s also worth noting Michigan’s natural advantage of being surrounded by water. That has always been a historical ( for thousands of years) advantage, to be located near large fresh water supplies. However, abundance and technology allowed humans to move away from such natural areas and populate areas that are natural deserts, which are not really conducive for humanity. However, that era is coming to a scratching halt due to population growth and fresh water supplies not replenishing at a rate to keep up with it (population growth). In other words, it will become unsustainable to maintain desert populations and many areas that are not located by larges sources of Fresh Water. Michigan is sitting pretty in this respect. Moreover, that water creates plenty of recreational activities. The state has a lot of natural beauty and amenities. It’s an undervalued stock that is will boom in the not too distant future…….if America ever pulls out of the mess that it is in.

The Associated Press: Judge rules against Atlanta in regional water wars

There seems to be this perception that when the economy does make its correction that there will be this explosion of job growth throughout the country...this is far from true. Most economists don't see the DOW rising above 10,000 in the next 5 years; pick virtually any company on the stock market and they will be 70-90% smaller than this time last year. Thats what this recession is about nationally: downsizing. Many parts of the country will not even notice a "recovery", companies simply will not grow to their former sizes and re institute millions and millions of positions.