[hsxeric]

Originally Posted by VM1138

Clearly stay away from Saginaw, since it's crime ridden.

This is only true if you live on the east side of the city. The west side is very safe, friendly, and fun. You may not be able to find any acreage in the city, however, so you might want to check out the Shields area or Saginaw Township, both west of the city limits.

[emu742]

I appreciate so much all the info on the thumb vs western MI. Looks like right now we are leaning towards the west side of the state. Besides Holland (from what I've heard) are there any specific areas to avoid as far as an ultra-religious or close-minded town?

[Sparrow_temp]

What do you plan on doing? It's not like these areas are run by the Taliban. You can actually befriend people without belonging to the same or even any church. I get sick of seeing all of the posts about "open minded" communities being synonymous with secular progressives and implying that anybody with a religious upbringing is somehow "close minded". These same "open minded" folk throw a hissy fit if you put up any type of religious display or basically anything they disagree with.

I think more often than not people looking for "open minded" communities are really looking for "like minded" people and basically want to be separated from all others. There is nothing wrong with Holland or most of the western MI communities.

[emu742]

On the contrary - we are very much a bit of everything with our views and do not fit into any box. We are simply nervous to move because we will not be near family (and don't have our own yet), we will know no one, and we are a bit reserved by nature. Thus we are worried about not assimilating into the new place that we end up choosing, which would be a very difficult situation.

We simply don't want to plunk ourselves down in some town that is uncomfortable with new folks, or ones that don't like other views or religions. We happily will be friends with anyone, like-minded or not, but this doesn't tend to be the case with most - as you said, most people look for like-minded people. I have already experienced this where I am willing to associate and befriend others but they distance themselves once they realize I am not going to be a part of their church, for example.

[dutchinnd]

And even in Holland, there is a great variety. Yes, there are many dutch Calvinists that may fit the stereotype, but then there are also large numbers people who have moved into the area for a variety of reasons. You may want to check out blue laws--liquor sales, Sunday closings, etc. as a measure of how conservative a community may be. I grew up in Grandville, and yes I can point to conservative neighborhoods where everyone went to a church of the same/similar denominations. But throughout the town as a whole--there is a wide variation.

[michigan83]

When I have found variety as you call it, they mostly are transplants from other parts of the world that find the overtones of the typical Hollander to be puzzling and annoying.

LOL.

As someone who comes from that background... I can assure you that the typical Hollander find the habits of more "Worldly" folks to be "puzzling and annoying."

I've definitely moderated away from that lifestyle, but I also respect the deep-rooted values held by those crazy Calvinists.

[michigan83]

"As someone who comes from that background... I can assure you that the typical Hollander find the habits of more "Worldly" folks to be "puzzling and annoying."
Exactly proves my point.

Hmmm... so the two groups of people don't understand each other very well. That's a bummer.

Well, at least you're not being judgemental towards them, like they are towards you.

[emu742]

Originally Posted by deslok

Holland, Zeeland, Grand Haven would be my top cities to avoid if I were ever up that way.
It is not a matter of like minded or wanting to be around a bunch of Progressive (liberal?) people. It's about being in an area where you are less likely to be judged off the bat, en masse, by the people around you for who you are. In Kalamazoo I always felt judged because I wasn't progressive enough. In holland/Zeeland the idea of what church you go to weighs way too much of importance to the social lives of the people there, to me at least.
I contrast that to towns I have been to in Wisconsin, or even on the eastern side of Michigan, where you can meet nice, decent people who are not concerned with churches and that sort of thing. When I have found variety as you call it, they mostly are transplants from other parts of the world that find the overtones of the typical Hollander to be puzzling and annoying.

If you head North of this area-Muskegon straight on up to Traverse City (and the cities/towns on the way) do you run into any other towns similar to that area (Holland, Zeeland, Grand Haven or Kalamazoo on the other end of the spectrum)??

[ketterman]

As someone who lives in west Michigan... much of what has been about Ottawa county is true. Quite frankly, I've found the stereo-type to also extend to kent county as well (some areas more than others obviously).

However, it is a big enough area that you will find a place to fit just as the rest of us non-calvinists have. I am Catholic and we Catholics are pretty much considered to be the anti-christ over here. In all honesty, I can find any kind of group in west Michigan. You just need to know where to look.

I've found Muskegon, Spring Lake, Sparta, Lowell, Caledonia, Middleville, Cutlerville, and Wyoming to be friendliest.

The best school systems in my opinion (if school district is a deciding factor):

Sparta, Rockford, Forrest Hills, Northview, Byron Center, East Grand Rapids, Jenison, Grandville, Kenowa Hills. In no particular order and I might be missing a couple... but those are the ones that came to mind first.

Good luck with your decision! I think west Michigan is beautiful.

[VM1138]

Politically, Michigan is pretty conservative. The only traditionally liberal areas in the southern part of the state form a corridor of counties from Bay County down to the city of Detroit, really. There are others of course, but that corridor is really the only geographic part of Michigan totally dominated by the left.

Again, the Bay City area has good soil, rural areas near cities and highways, so you'd get a good mix. The further west you go I think the soil becomes poorer and there are less farms, but I don't get out to the West part of the state very often, so I could be wrong.