[dmetro]

Originally Posted by adler2u

I totaly disagre, the shift will not show up on stats this soon, 4 years ago arkansas and myrtle beach two places I have personaly seen, property was very low compared to today, and michigan was still in good times. the major shift has taken place in the last two to three years.
I don't agree that the colors are all the same.
Those colors are going to shift even more especially for michigan, you will see a poverty rate climb in southern michigan as well.

I don't believe so, most of the people in Michigan who can't find jobs are simply leaving the state, so it's not like they're going to be living in poverty in Michigan. Now if it was the whole nation that was in a recession, it would be different...

[Michigan Aaron]

I would like to add something to all this.....I am a 38 year old native of Michigan and have been living in the south (Texas and Georgia) for 27 years. I dreamed for years of returning home, but was smart enough to acquire a skill (radiology tech) that is in demand everywhere before I attempted it. Thrilled to say I am moving to Petoskey next month and can't wait to get back home where I belong.

I wanted to share my personal opinion of moving south from the midwest. The south, particularly Texas, Georgia, and North Carolina, is experiencing explosive growth at an unprecedented rate. Yes, there are more jobs, and yes, the weather is warmer. But in some spots, in this case Atlanta, where I live, the population gain has spiraled out of control and has morphed into a sickening sprawl that has turned a once charming, comfortable place to live into a traffic plagued crush that is completely unrecognizable in comparison to the one we moved to 20 years ago. Many people refer to Atlanta as the "Los Angeles of the south".......which I initially scoffed at, but have now come to realize as a sadly fitting description for this region. The people just keep coming, and unlike years past, the cost of living is also beginning to reflect the areas popularity. Still, many I know who have migrated say they will never go back - some would like to, but say they can't deal with the cold anymore.

I can understand why those come here would want to stay, and I have no problem with that. Many of those people are simply making better lives for themselves, the way we did when we left Michigan for Texas in 1980.

I, however, have decided to return to Michigan because I love Michigan, period - and I am willing to do what is neccessary in order to make her my home once again. Why am I going back? This is why:

1) I miss the sense of family and community I get when back in Michigan. The south is largely made up of transplants from all over the country (and the world for that matter). Again, some people enjoy the melting pot setting, but I long for a more close knit enviornment.

2) I miss the seasons big time. Yes, driving in and shoveling snow sucks, but the beauty along with the invigorating variety is worth it to me. Plus, the springs, summers and falls are so spectacular that to me paying the price of a harsh winter is well worth it. I'm still an old fashioned guy that LIKES to see snow at Christmastime! And if you are not fond of sweltering heat and humidity much of the year the south is definitely not for you.

3) The marvelous water......try finding a body of water in the south that even comes close to Michigans magnificent lakes. From the Great Lakes to the smallest ponds, only Minnesota rivals Michigans water bodies in terms of beauty and purity. In Georgia, the "lakes" are actually man made reservoirs that are **** brown from either the red mud common to the region, the contsruction waste being poured into them from surrounding areas, or both. In the winter these "lakes" are drained to reveal mud flats that are an eye sore until the next spring arrives. No contest here.

4) The sports. Good luck finding fans passionate about anything besides college football or NASCAR in the south. People don't want anything to do with hockey here, so if you live for that sport the way I do, you will suffer immensely in this region. Other sports like baseball may be well attended, but there is just no PASSION there the way there is in Michigan, which I think is hands down the greatest sports region in the U.S., or anywhere for that matter.

5) The church. This is in no way a slap at religion, as I am a God fearing man, but in the south the baptist church tends to have a major say in legislation matters. There are no alcohol package sales in Georgia on Sunday, and yet one is free as a bird to walk into a bar or restaurant, get slobberknockin' drunk and then get in their car and attempt to drive home. This kind of hypocrisy has driven me nuts for years down here.

6) The schools. It's a widely known fact that education in the south has always lagged behind the north. Especially at the high school and collegiate level......do all the research you like, but I've experienced it and I know.

7) The traffic in the south. Moving to Atlanta or Houston? Hope you like your car, because you will be in it a LOT. Atlanta has the longest average commute in the nation, and atrocious public transportation. Traffic in some places is so bad that people are moving from those areas because they just can't deal with it any longer.

8) The future. First, I want my children to be from the place I came from. I want the things about Michigan that are so special to me to be just as special to them, and then one day they can make their own decision as to wether they want to stay or leave. Second, I believe Michigan can be a great place to live again, as it was in the past at the height of the auto boom - if only more people like me that feel strongly enough about her will contribute to the revitalization effort. If at all possible, we need to live, work and invest in Michigan in order to bring her back to national prominence. I'm sorry, but I lived in Texas for 8 years.....and no one that's not from Texas can sit there with a straight face and tell me that is a more desirable place to live than Michigan, aside from the weather reasons.

Sorry this was so long, but I felt it important to weigh in on this topic. There is much more I could say, but I do hope that fellow Michiganders that do have a chance to remain in the state will think twice about bolting just because everyone else seems to be. At least think things over and do some research before you do. It doesnt take long and it may save at least some of you from going to a place you'll regret. Like the other guy said, the south aint all its cracked up to be.

[jeeg]

Michigan Aaron -- Let me be the first to say "Welcome Home!"
I'm a bit further north then you in the U.P. and I too love this state .

[magellan]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind shoveling snow?

I find it to be great exercise in the winter, and a chance to get outside. If you bundle up right, you can stay out in winter weather for hours.

[joenc]

6) The schools. It's a widely known fact that education in the south has always lagged behind the north. Especially at the high school and collegiate level......do all the research you like, but I've experienced it and I know.

Really?? Schools like Duke, Emory, Georgia Tech, UNC, Vanderbilt, Rice, and UVA are as good as any university in the midwest.

[Minnehahapolitan]

It isn't that there aren't good schools in the South, but there are more of them in the Midwest and North. Cities like Orlando, Charlotte and Nashville that experienced more of their growth in this century have fewer schools. If Charlotte were in Ohio it would have a nationally recognized museum, a Big Ten University, et. cetera. Traditionally, the South was not an urban place. It precludes alot of things that the North takes as granted. Its not bad, just different.

[Minnehahapolitan]

Oh, Thank You for moving home, Mich. needs you more.

[ForeverExploring]

As someone who lived in Michigan for 1 year, Atlanta for 1 year, and is now headed back to Michigan, I feel uniquely qualified to offer some comments. I'm returning for career reasons, not locational.

There are two main things I'm going to miss in my relocation:

1. The SUN: The official stats on this forum says that 70% of the days in mid-Michigan are completely cloudy in the winter (90% are partly cloudly). I'm not sure where they get that statistic... my experience was three solid months of not seeing the sun when I lived there. Atlanta's not San Diego, but it still seems like it's constantly sunny here in comparison.

2. The Mountains: I live within the Perimeter in Atlanta, and I *love* being able to walk next door and find myself hiking along high ridges overlooking the river. I spent last weekend backpacking in the Cohuttas (1.5 hrs away), the weekend before mountain biking in Pisgah (2 hrs away), the weekend before rock climbing on Lookout Mtn (2 hrs away), and the weekend before that rappelling down a 150 ft waterfall in Alabama (3 hrs away). Mid-Michigan is FLAT. FLAT, FLAT, FLAT.

There are things I like about Michigan... the summer is beautiful. The long days are perfect for hiking along some of the lakes and swamps. Detroit has a nice airport (NWA hub). I think I might take up sailing when I return.

-----

One last (slightly unrelated) comment on poverty. The official poverty statistics don't take into account regional cost-of-living differences. $20k in NYC is VERY different than $20k in Baton Rouge. The actual poverty line is currently set at $9,800 for a single individual.

I went to college in a Sourthern town (~20k students). My rent was $250 / month with one roommate... in a nice townhouse with a large bedroom, kitchen, den. If we go by the official poverty metric, I would've had $20/day for expenses left over after paying rent.

I had far less than that and I considered my life rather fabulous! I could run to a lake and jump in 9 months out of 12, mountain bike all I wanted, attend concerts at the school, flirt with college girls downtown. And I *still* saved money.

Poverty isn't what it used to be.

[wanderer74]

Maps like that don't explain my reasons for wanting to leave Michigan. For one, there are a lot of people here like me, who are technically above the poverty level but not by much. We wouldn't be represented on that map but that doesn't mean we're getting by well. The other thing is that particularly in the south, poverty is especially concentrated in the rural areas. That's unfortunate, but most of us who are planning to move out of state are going to the cities and their suburbs where the economic situation is much brighter. Of course there's a lot of poverty in places like extreme rural Texas or Georgia, but that says nothing about what the job markets are like in Dallas or Atlanta. Most people aren't leaving MI to live in the rural areas of other states.

I love Michigan, though the constant cloudiness here in the central part of the state gets me depressed. I don't really want to leave Michigan, but I'm just really tired of the rotten economy here. It's hard seeing the toll it's taken on my husband that he's now earning less than he did 10 years ago, and that he continues to send out many resumes every week and doesn't even get interviews. When you're an able-bodied adult with a college education and 10+ years of good work experience, it's a really hard thing to have such limited employment opportunities. After more than a year of that it's hard to keep hope and a positive outlook.

It's not that the rest of the country is a promised land, but many of us in Michigan are in really desperate financial situations due to the lack of good employment. Would anyone really expect people in that situation to stay here, surviving just barely above the poverty level, just because of a sense of loyalty to the state? Anyone who wants to stay and isn't struggling or doesn't mind struggling, more power to ya. But don't try to convince us that it's just as hard to make it financially in other states, because for the most part that's not true.

[Evlevo]

9 of the 10 fattest states are in the south (the exception is Indiana). I think long term that this is going to put a huge strain on the medical infrastructure.

Here is the stats....

The 10 states with the highest obesity rates are:

Mississippi
Alabama
West Virginia
Louisiana
Kentucky
Tennessee
Arkansas
Indiana (tie for 8th)
South Carolina (tie for 8th)
Texas

Maybe being a *Red State* is what makes you fat -kidding!
(here's the link) http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20060...besity-ranking