Moving South? It's not all it's cracked up to be (Detroit: home, income)

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Flint is south of Saginaw Bay, not west. I think that's the vicinity of Mt. Pleasant. That's probably the American Indian reservation up there - another great moment in US history.

Yes, that's Isabella County, which includes Mt Pleasant. CensusScope says they have a 20.38% poverty rate. Wayne County has 18.8%, which puts them in the peach color in the bottom right. Even the light green colored areas are not great (9.3 - 13.9%).

What's striking is the differences in Georgia, SC and NC. Is there really such a stark contrast between the urban Atlanta, Charlotte and Raleigh areas and the rural areas in those States?

[joenc]

Originally Posted by magellan

What's striking is the differences in Georgia, SC and NC. Is there really such a stark contrast between the urban Atlanta, Charlotte and Raleigh areas and the rural areas in those States?

Yes, very much so. In NC, the more rural areas got absolutely crushed when the textile mills went over seas.

[jake34]

I've Lived In Mi 10 Yrs Ago And I Know That It Has Changed Yet I 'll Be Coming Back,yet We Have Lived In The South, The Midwest And Sure There Are Problems Yet Over All Our Kids Have Gotten A Good Education Been Happy Had A Roof Over There Head Food On The Table..

[bubbagirl]

... And I know this has been pointed out on another thread....

The map is from 2000.

A LOT has changed since then. C'mon, that was published 7 yrs ago .. before the current administration had done it's damages, before GM started shutting down left and right. Heck, Olds and Pontiac were still producing several models that no longer exist.

[michiganmoon]

According to the government's 2004 stats....

State: Poverty Rates / median household income
Michigan 12.4% / $44,409
North Carolina 13.8% / $40,863
Florida 11.9% / $40,900
Tennessee 15.0% / $38,945
Arizona 14.6% / $43,696
Texas 16.2% / $41,645
Georgia 13.7% / $42,679

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/

According to the 2004 stats, is Michigan really that bad compared to the warm weather trendier states?

[magellan]

Originally Posted by bubbagirl

... And I know this has been pointed out on another thread....

The map is from 2000.

A LOT has changed since then. C'mon, that was published 7 yrs ago .. before the current administration had done it's damages, before GM started shutting down left and right. Heck, Olds and Pontiac were still producing several models that no longer exist.

And has been stated before, the numbers have only changed by 1 or 2 points in most counties in Michigan. I know as much as some of you would LIKE them to be worse, they're not that much worse than 2000.

As you can see by Michiganmoon's post above, Michigan has historically had some of the highest wages in the country. They have been coming down over the past 5 - 8 years and are now getting closer in line to the rest of the country.

But isn't that really what everyone in Michigan wanted? To do away with high-paying union jobs?

[wanderer74]

Originally Posted by michiganmoon

According to the government's 2004 stats....

State: Poverty Rates / median household income
Michigan 12.4% / $44,409
North Carolina 13.8% / $40,863
Florida 11.9% / $40,900
Tennessee 15.0% / $38,945
Arizona 14.6% / $43,696
Texas 16.2% / $41,645
Georgia 13.7% / $42,679

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/

According to the 2004 stats, is Michigan really that bad compared to the warm weather trendier states?

As I stated in another post, these figures are for entire states. There are some very poor rural areas in many of the southern states in particular, and those are calculated when determining the median income and % in poverty. People moving to the southern states from MI aren't moving to the impoverished rural areas, they're moving to the cities where jobs are plentiful.

Remember too that "median income" is NOT the same as an average - it's that half the population earns less than that amount and half earn above. In the bigger cities, the half earning above that amount are often earning well above that amount. My own household (married, 3 kids) is earning about half the median income for the state, which doesn't put us in poverty but it damn sure isn't doing well.

If you think the economy in MI really isn't any worse than down south, I can only assume that you have never been significantly underemployed, or that you have never lived in a southern state. I have been in both situations. I know someone in FL making about the same wage as a retail clerk as my husband makes with a degree and 10 yrs' work experience here in MI. There's something wrong when experienced, educated, able-bodied men can't get wages above a level qualifying us for food stamps.

[Sociologist]

We all must take into consideration that many of those states on the list represent a much larger population than that of Michigan. Michigan has less people than Texas, but if you were to look at the "average" amount of people in Michigan that are living in poverty next to many states, we win the battle. The same is true if you were to compare us to California or New York state, that isn't a real representation of the crisis in Michigan. If we were compared to a state with similar population, the difference is stark. We may not have the highest "state average" for people living in what the government determines as poverty, but some of our communities and cities house some of the highest levels of all cities in the country.I can make a scatter diagram or a bar graph appear as though every state is at relatively equal proportions as far as poverty, but it is the unemployment rate and budget crisis that tell the truth.

[The_Anonymous_American]

But even the unemployment rate can be skewed by Michigan's far more generous unemployment benefits compared to southern states. One of the union legacies is training laid off workers to collect unemployment benefits, and extend their benefits rather than train and look for another job. This attitude has affected the non-union and the political class in Michigan. Granholm immediately offered additional unemployment benefits to Pfizer scientists when she heard of their layoff, as if these people needed more welfare benefits. That's the attitude that has to change in this state.

[Sociologist]

Originally Posted by The_Anonymous_American

But even the unemployment rate can be skewed by Michigan's far more generous unemployment benefits compared to southern states. One of the union legacies is training laid off workers to collect unemployment benefits, and extend their benefits rather than train and look for another job. This attitude has affected the non-union and the political class in Michigan. Granholm immediately offered additional unemployment benefits to Pfizer scientists when she heard of their layoff, as if these people needed more welfare benefits. That's the attitude that has to change in this state.

A recent study was conducted by key U of M economists on the true unemployment rate of our state. Through the outcome of the study, it was predicted that the "actual" rate of unemployment in Michigan was nearly 11.5%, if you add in people who are unemployed and who are not eligible for benefits, those to do not claim, and those who work for cash under the table. If you have ever studied the benefit package to receive unemployment, the word confusing cannot describe it. One lawmaker described it as "a phone maze on paper". Among all the other requirements you must complete to continue your eligibility. Calling into a automated phone system at certain times. It is design to drive away those who want easy money. The reason Granholm scrambled to help displaced Pfizer workers is because she is well aware they are the worker of the future and to have them leave is catastrophic.