[Luzette]

flyiingwriter,

Thank you for your comments. Honestly, if it wasn't for the cold weather I would not be thinking of leaving MI. It's very cold today, and it has my legs aching. I just got back from church, and it was cold in the car all the way down because it's only a 4 mile drive. Now that I'm home I just feel like I'm freezing, and this is what I'm having an increasingly difficult time with. The cold of MI is just relentless and accounts for most of what we have throughout the year. I probably wouldn't fit in down south on a culture or political level either, but the warm and even hot weather sounds so good to me.

[Guineas]

Michigan is a sticky state because housing prices are low compared to the rest of the country. In other words, if you sell your home in Michigan, you won't be able to buy a similar house in more desirable states. It's also not yet bad enough in Michigan to light a fire under people's butts to get out of the state, so there's a lot of inertia.

Michigan is also surrounded by states with equally crappy outlooks (Ohio, northern Indiana).

It also doesn't help that Michigan ranks pretty low in ratio of college grads.

[Guineas]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

I was specifically referring to people who live in winter climates.

Plus, if you look at the places that consistently rank in the highest quality of life in the world, they are overwhelmingly in cold, winter climates.

Americans just got a little lazy.

Michigan cold is different from Western European or New England cold. Michigan doesn't have the benefit of the gulf stream ocean current. After spending a couple years in Michigan, Boston felt like a southern vacation. The coldest day in the Netherlands couldn't hold a candle against most of January and February in Ann Arbor.

[Guineas]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

There are a lot of homogenous populations that don't rank high in quality of life - Japan, China, India, Korea, much of Africa, South America... heck, pretty much most of the world.

So, that's not it.

Are you kidding me? China, India and most of Africa and South America are not homogenous at all. People there can't even understand each other 100 miles away. There are more mutually unintelligible languages spoken in China than all of Europe. The reason China is developing now is because their government is mandating a single official language and cultural tradition, and essentially banning all others. India also has like 20 languages and a caste system to boot.

Japan is homogenous and it's also first world and has the highest life expectancy.

Your concept of homogeneity/heterogeneity is simply too shallow (white, black, Asian). A country can have everyone a member of the same race and still not be homogenous at all.

[mp9bell]

I had to leave my home in Indian River, MI to find work just before the Grandholm industry meltdown. As much as I complained about the weather and other things, living in the SC midlands has opened my eyes to see, there's no place like home. I still have a house in Indian River that is for sale. It has been on the market for 2.5 years. I started the listing at 245k and it is down to 180k now. This is 10k less than I owe the bank. With the tarp funds available to the banks, they will never lose a dime on foreclosed property. These foreclosed assets have just killed the real estate market in Michigan and the property values have just gone down the toilet. Anyone looking for a real nice Cape Cod in Northern Michigan can call me or email me at: 803-460-9386 mp99bell@aol.com. I wont apologize for the plug. Desperate men do desperate things.

[davmille]

Very interesting topic. I wish someone would pursue a grant to find out the answer to why people like to stay where they were raised and back it up with statistics. I've met people who were raised in third world countries in terrible circumstances and they still were hoping to go home some day. Michigan is of interest to me since I was born and raised there and still have a great deal of family in the state. I guess I could even say that I lived a kid's dream growing up since we owned a large farm near Grand Haven and only about 1/2 mile from Lake Michigan. It may still be a nice place to live but it is much more urban now. I also had roots in NC going back to about 1757 on my dad's side so we spent a great deal of time in the south and I always felt like I had two homes. The few hard numbers I have seen do not support the fact that people stay in Michigan for the weather although I am sure there are some who do. There are actually studies that have been done to determine the optimum comfort levels for people based on temp. and humidity and believe it or not, the farther south you go the more days you get that are in this zone. Also, studies have shown that the farther north you go, the greater the incidence of depression which may be linked to decreased daylight. If it is cool summers one likes, there are places in the Appalacian mts. that are cooler in summer than Michigan and have great deals of snow in winter. One final nail in the the coffin of climate might be the fact that Asheville, NC has been ranked as the best 4 season climate by the National Weather Service using temp. and humidity data from various studies. I suspect that it is largely a case of economics, family, and familiarity with an area as has been pointed out in other posts. Just my two cents.

[northstar22]

Calling Asheville, NC a four-season climate is somewhat dubious. It's very borderline, really a three-season climate (spring, summer, fall) with very mild to nonexistent winters, although it does get more snow and cooler temps than the rest of NC. I have a hard time calling any place that averages "winter" highs in the 40s and gets less than 20" inches of snow annually a four-season climate. That's not winter, that's spring!

[davmille]

Originally Posted by flyingwriter

Calling Asheville, NC a four-season climate is somewhat dubious. It's very borderline, really a three-season climate (spring, summer, fall) with very mild to nonexistent winters, although it does get more snow and cooler temps than the rest of NC. I have a hard time calling any place that averages "winter" highs in the 40s and gets less than 20" inches of snow annually a four-season climate. That's not winter, that's spring!

Spoken as a true Michigander! However, you have to remember that our comrades in the UP say there are only two seasons; "Winter's here and winter's coming". Having married a true southern belle, I'll have to plead the fifth. She is certain that the Garden of Eden never got below freezing.

[GAisGreat]

Originally Posted by actinic

#6 in fact in the % of people born here that stick here ...

Maps: Migration Flows in the United States, Sticky States - Pew Social & Demographic Trends (http://pewsocialtrends.org/maps/migration/stickystate.php - broken link)

Why would this be? In a state which consistently has some of the highest unemployment you would think lots of residents have moved elsewhere to find jobs.

Contrast this to the other statistic - it ranks low (#47) in the % of people who've migrated here from somewhere else. This makes perfect sense - no jobs, no in migration. Same thing happening for many mid western states.

So back to Michigan. Does the state welfare system encourage people to stay? Are so many upside down on their mortgage they can't afford to leave? Are the state's residents less educated, thus less marketable? Is it more a matter or unwillingness or inability? Or can we also say that those who live here & work here are more content to stay?

I'll get slammed for this...But JMO, Michigan people have an overwhelming entitlement/welfare mentality thanks to generations of growing up union. Most would rather sit in a job that they spend 1/2 the year laid off from, collect gov't assistence, unemployment, etc. to get by the other 1/2 of the year for their entire lives than ever leave the state and make a better life for themselves and children.

[michigan83]

Michigan is a sticky state because housing prices are low compared to the rest of the country. In other words, if you sell your home in Michigan, you won't be able to buy a similar house in more desirable states. It's also not yet bad enough in Michigan to light a fire under people's butts to get out of the state, so there's a lot of inertia.

Michigan is also surrounded by states with equally crappy outlooks (Ohio, northern Indiana).

It also doesn't help that Michigan ranks pretty low in ratio of college grads.

So... a lot of people stay here because it's such a crappy place?

I think Michigan's stickiness has much more to do with deep roots, strong family ties, a sense of tradition, a little bit of insularity, and also the fact that it is a really nice place to live if you're in the right area.

Take me, for example. My ideal climate would probably be a little warmer than Michigan's. I could probably find a higher-paying job somewhere else. But there is no point is living somewhere warmer and making more money if I am going to be away from the people, activities and places that I have grown so fond of while I've lived here.

I understand that a lot of people are in a tough spot economically and it creates a lot of negativity. But, in the great scheme of things, weather and income are superficial reasons to live somewhere. And I should also say that I LOVE the weather here during 75% of the year, and I find things to appreciate about winter as well.