[edub]

Anyone have the unfortunate experience of dealing with these people?

The Chief Judge (Kimberly Small) devised a way of jailing minors, contrary to law, who get caught with alcohol.

Here is how:

The charge of "minor in possession" does not allow a Judge to give jail time. So instead, Small sentences violators to probation conditions that are impossible to comply with. ie twice daily breath tests every day for a year or more.

Eventually, most kids miss an appointment and violate probation. Now, when probation is violated, the Judge can sentence the violator up to but not in excess of the original crime. Again, this includes no jail time.

But this is not enough for Judge Small. So, she instead charges the kids with contempt of court and sentences them to do time in Oakland County Jail - a place that houses violent felons. These charges also remain on their record, some times perminantly, and can ruin their chances for scholarships and future employment.

I do not know what kind of deranged sadist feels it necessary to send children to jail, but one thing is for sure, this woman must be stopped.

[Sparrow_temp]

Well, #1 -- you don't have to drink as a minor which would have prevented all of this.

#2 - you don't have to miss an appointment with the breathalyzer and violate probation.

That being said though -- it's probably overkill to be putting minors in jail -- unless they're also wearing sagging pants...

Originally Posted by edub

Anyone have the unfortunate experience of dealing with these people?

The Chief Judge (Kimberly Small) devised a way of jailing minors, contrary to law, who get caught with alcohol.

Here is how:

The charge of "minor in possession" does not allow a Judge to give jail time. So instead, Small sentences violators to probation conditions that are impossible to comply with. ie twice daily breath tests every day for a year or more.

Eventually, most kids miss an appointment and violate probation. Now, when probation is violated, the Judge can sentence the violator up to but not in excess of the original crime. Again, this includes no jail time.

But this is not enough for Judge Small. So, she instead charges the kids with contempt of court and sentences them to do time in Oakland County Jail - a place that houses violent felons. These charges also remain on their record, some times perminantly, and can ruin their chances for scholarships and future employment.

I do not know what kind of deranged sadist feels it necessary to send children to jail, but one thing is for sure, this woman must be stopped.

[edub]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

That being said though -- it's probably overkill to be putting minors in jail

Gee, do you think?

I smell troll.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by edub

I smell troll.

The same thing I thought when I read your opening post.

I happen to agree with Sparrow_Temp, #1) don't drink as a minor and there is no problem. If you choose NOT to follow the law, then you have to live with whatever punishment is handed down. Imagine that, not doing whatever you want and actually following rules and laws. Shame on the Judge for following whatever is in her power to stop kids in her District from breaking the law and potentially harming themselves or others.

[ImaMichigander]

While she is coming down hard on the kids who come into her courtroom, I hope that it would serve as a deterrent for others in her jurisdiction. I'm ok with it.

[edub]

Originally Posted by Bydand

The same thing I thought when I read your opening post.

I happen to agree with Sparrow_Temp, #1) don't drink as a minor and there is no problem. If you choose NOT to follow the law, then you have to live with whatever punishment is handed down. Imagine that, not doing whatever you want and actually following rules and laws. Shame on the Judge for following whatever is in her power to stop kids in her District from breaking the law and potentially harming themselves or others.

Actually, what she is doing is illegal and she is being sued for it.

Judges can not, by law, give jail time for MIP or for violation of probation stemming from MIP. Charging "contempt" is a legal loophole she has devised.

But regardless, do you people really think that a 19 year old kid should be put in OCJ where they could be raped and/or murdered because they got caught at a high school party with some beer? And you think the same 19 year old should start out life with a criminal record for doing what all 19 year olds, including yours, are doing - something that most rational people consider a right of passage?

Oh, almost forgot - Judge Small's daughter was charged with MIP in Ann Arbor IIRC. And I hear her brother is or was a drug addict but I don't have proof.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

Well, #1 -- you don't have to drink as a minor which would have prevented all of this.

That's true, but a minor drinking alcohol has hurt absolutely no one other than perhaps himself. It's a victimless crime and thus perhaps shouldn't even be a crime to begin with. For those reasons any punishments should be of the pay-a-fine variety.

#2 - you don't have to miss an appointment with the breathalyzer and violate probation.

Twice-a-day does seem unreasonably burdensome. Once or twice a week would be much more reasonable.

That being said though -- it's probably overkill to be putting minors in jail -- unless they're also wearing sagging pants...

Can you say, "Taxpayer dollars being wasted to punish non-criminals?"

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Bydand

#1) don't drink as a minor and there is no problem. If you choose NOT to follow the law, then you have to live with whatever punishment is handed down.

What if the law in question is irrational and immoral? Would you still follow it?

Shame on the Judge for following whatever is in her power to stop kids in her District from breaking the law and potentially harming themselves or others.

If we forbid actions that are merely potentially harmful then it would be illegal to drive or to use kitchen knives.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by ImaMichigander

While she is coming down hard on the kids who come into her courtroom, I hope that it would serve as a deterrent for others in her jurisdiction. I'm ok with it.

It sounds like she is promoting the violation of our individual rights and then terrorizing people who were caught committing a consensual crime against themselves. Then to top it off, she is squandering taxpayer money by requiring all of these breathalizer tests and by sentencing people who have committed no real crime to jail.

[Sparrow_temp]

Well, what's the alternative? If you want to stop underage drinking, you can't just make the penalty a fine. The breathalyzer prevents you from doing any underage drinking or be discovered if done on a twice daily basis. If you miss a breathalyzer test, it pretty much has to be assumed that it was because you had something to drink.

With regard to it being a victimless crime, it is until one of these kids then gets in a car and drives intoxicated.

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

It sounds like she is promoting the violation of our individual rights and then terrorizing people who were caught committing a consensual crime against themselves. Then to top it off, she is squandering taxpayer money by requiring all of these breathalizer tests and by sentencing people who have committed no real crime to jail.