[magellan]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

This is laughable. There are tons of businesses and homes in that area...your pictures don't represent the overall picture when walking around. I was just there!

Royal Oak is located in Michigan, and Michigan is going through a tough time right now! Again (how many times must I post this?) NO ONE IS SAYING TIMES AREN'T TOUGH! I simply refuse to believe we are on a sinking ship called the USS Michigan!

Again (yet again!), should all 10 million Michiganders pack up and leave the state?

I agree. I've been to Royal Oak many times and frankly I didn't recognize 3/4's of those buildings. I wonder what the retail vacancy rate is for Royal Oak? It's not like the boom days of the late 90's I'm sure. Instead of cherry picking all the vacancies, it would have been more realistic to photograph a wide sampling of every retail street in Royal Oak.

We have a similar situation in Eastown in Grand Rapids, which is an eclectic neighborhood much like Royal Oak. There are a few more vacancies than usual recently, which were previously small locally owned galleries, framing shops, cafes and such. I think the onslaught of big boxes and national chains, in addition to the general Michigan doldrums, makes it extremely difficult for these guys and gals to stay in business. They cannot afford to go 6 months profit-free like Starbucks or Whole Foods can.

In contrast, downtown Holland and downtown Rockford (North of Grand Rapids), are bursting with small retailers right now. But they attract a much different demographic (families and baby boomers).

Plus, the demographic that frequents these eclectic areas right now (which is us Gen Xers if you are in your 30's), is right now the smallest segment of the population right now. We can't sustain entire retail industries ourselves, especially since we sort of grew up on supermarts.

Interestingly, the "Millennials" generation coming up behind us is ALMOST as large as the Baby Boomers. We're stuck in the middle of the "hour-glass".

Sorry, off topic a bit.

[southernlady5464]

We moved from MI 6 weeks ago due to a job. My husband took a DTE buyout back last fall and we found a job that took us south to NC. Since ALL our family is down here and my health prefers MUCH warmer winters so it was a good choice for us.

We still own our home in MI since it still has not sold...yes, it's still listed. Actually it's been on the market since last August. The three people who have even looked at it haven't qualified for a mortgage.

Now, had we still had a job, we would have stayed in MI...we liked it there. We liked the area. Had good friends. And except for almost NO spring and so much winter, we liked the seasons. I prefer a little more balance. Not 9 months of winter and a week of spring. It was a tad flat where we lived, Monroe, but it's flat here too.

Unfortunately I don't see a solution for those of you remaining in MI. I wish I did and wish you well. It is a beautiful state. And I hope it does turn around SOON. You deserve it. Liz

[colormegreen]

I doubt that all Michiganians are going to leave the state because of the economy however, many are leaving because we have to not because we really want to do it. I can't find a teaching job in the state and if I do get one I will be faced with not knowing if I will be cut from year to year for awhile. A lot of us will move to get experience and hopefully move back when the jobs are there. Most states go through this kind of problem and get out of it - we (the citizens of Michigan collectively) need to do something - like get better leadership of the state and elect those who really really want to do something for the betterment of Michigan.

[southernlady5464]

Well, eventually it has to turn around. The state just can't disappear off the map. Liz

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by magellan

I agree. I've been to Royal Oak many times and frankly I didn't recognize 3/4's of those buildings. I wonder what the retail vacancy rate is for Royal Oak? It's not like the boom days of the late 90's I'm sure. Instead of cherry picking all the vacancies, it would have been more realistic to photograph a wide sampling of every retail street in Royal Oak.

I don't know what the vacancy rate is, but I guarantee this poster or someone else will come along and tell me the entire downtown area of RO is on the precipice of shutting down this very second!

Originally Posted by magellan

We have a similar situation in Eastown in Grand Rapids, which is an eclectic neighborhood much like Royal Oak. There are a few more vacancies than usual recently, which were previously small locally owned galleries, framing shops, cafes and such. I think the onslaught of big boxes and national chains, in addition to the general Michigan doldrums, makes it extremely difficult for these guys and gals to stay in business. They cannot afford to go 6 months profit-free like Starbucks or Whole Foods can.

In contrast, downtown Holland and downtown Rockford (North of Grand Rapids), are bursting with small retailers right now. But they attract a much different demographic (families and baby boomers)..

Love Rockford! My parents live in Greenville, not too far from there. And yes, the downtown seems to be very nice and doing well there! Even little ol' Greenville's downtown is doing okay, considering the how small the town is (around 8k people), the state of Michigan's economy, and the Big Box stores that have sprung up on the west side of town.

Originally Posted by magellan

Plus, the demographic that frequents these eclectic areas right now (which is us Gen Xers if you are in your 30's), is right now the smallest segment of the population right now. We can't sustain entire retail industries ourselves, especially since we sort of grew up on supermarts.

Interestingly, the "Millennials" generation coming up behind us is ALMOST as large as the Baby Boomers. We're stuck in the middle of the "hour-glass"...Sorry, off topic a bit.

Yes, OT a bit, but very interesting. I am also a "Gen X-er" (32 in August ) and we are, instead of the greatest generation, the smallest generation, LOL! I have faith things will get better.

[magellan]

It is a very interesting phenomenon. I think Fast Company Magazine first coined the phrase, The Hourglass Demographic, but the generation that is right now raising families and beginning to move into the Middle Class is one of the smallest in this past century.

hourglass demographics millennials - Google Search

Obviously Baby Boomers is by far the largest generation in the past century, but the Millennials bringing up the rear are again almost as large as the Baby Boomers. They will greatly affect the market in about 10 - 15 years, and who knows what will happen then.

To swing this back around and how it relates to Michigan:
If these Millennials can be enticed to stay in Michigan, or given incentives or an environment to start businesses, it would be quite a boom.

GenX'ers will always be the small insignificant group. Oh well.

[baystater]

Originally Posted by magellan

GenX'ers will always be the small insignificant group. Oh well.

And they wonder why us X'ers just don't care about anything. Thanks for making me feel bitter.

[Cato the Elder]

X-ers aren't really a new phenomenon. The generation that was a little too young to fight in WWII is known as the Silent Generation - sandwiched in between the GI Generation and Boomers. IIRC, it's the only generation to not have a US President - skipped from Bush to Clinton. It's perhaps the reason why the postwar years are relatively non-descript until the 50s really get going, kind of like the early 90s. I'm a proud X-er myself. Get ready to get bowled over by the Gen-Y/Echo-Boomers once they hit their 30s and enter the prime marketing demographic.

[enli]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

I don't know what the vacancy rate is, but I guarantee this poster or someone else will come along and tell me the entire downtown area of RO is on the precipice of shutting down this very second!

Well, frankly, that's pretty insulting. I said nothing of the kind, but I did point out a reality - we have problems in my home town that are not going to be fixed by vomiting up another high rise loft building. I challenge anyone who thinks I cherry picked or worse to print the pictures and walk down Washington from Eleven Mile to Lincoln - about a half mile, then go east one block to Main and walk back to Eleven Mile and find one single building that does not exist there.

What a shame that anyone who posts in disagreement is automatically portrayed as a liar.

More than one of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by enli

Well, frankly, that's pretty insulting. I said nothing of the kind, but I did point out a reality - we have problems in my home town that are not going to be fixed by vomiting up another high rise loft building. I challenge anyone who thinks I cherry picked or worse to print the pictures and walk down Washington from Eleven Mile to Lincoln - about a half mile, then go east one block to Main and walk back to Eleven Mile and find one single building that does not exist there.

What a shame that anyone who posts in disagreement is automatically portrayed as a liar.

More than one of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Well if you're referring to me (in addition to jeffncandace), I never called you a liar. I only said it was disingenuous to only post picture of a bunch of vacancies, and nothing else. It looks like Armageddon when you do it that way. That's why I asked what the retail vacancy rate is in Royal Oak right now.

I can go to the fastest growing city in America (Atlanta) and take a gazillion pictures like you did of vacant retailers. It means nothing without proper "context".

Peace from a Gen Xer.