How is everyone in MI dealing with the economy??? (Detroit: property taxes, budget)

[kaypurdue]

How am I dealing with the economy?

Well, I guess I'm kinda rebelling against it, staring it down in the face, because here I am about to plant some roots by buying a little house in what's probably the worst city in the state (Flint-town, although I wonder if Detroit has us beat) while working a job in the automotive industry (though not one of the big three, and the job itself seems pretty stable for now). So instead of following the herd and leaving the state to find work, I'm sticking around for a while... mostly because I just hate doing what everyone else is doing. And because I don't really know what I want to do anyway, so there's no reason for me to leave when I have something here that pays me well enough.

I have no need for a big house, fancy car, boats and whatnots... or even acres of land, because vast expanses of green just turn me off and I hate mowing... so I don't need to make a lot of money to live the way I want to for now. I can make not a lot of money anywhere in the country, so I might as well do it here, stay close to my parents, and live someplace that has four seasons and plenty of recreation opportunities.

But - that is just me, and I'm acutely aware that I'm an oddball.

[lavendersunrise]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Therein lies the problem. Why not go to college when most people do? Why is it that the majority of the students in my Wayne State classes are ethnic minorities - amazing considering how white the state is - makes Berkeley look like BYU. On the flipside, I would guess that the vast majority of my dropouts and failing students are from 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Big-3 employed families. How do I know? I have all my students write a mini-bio at the beginning of the semester and I noticed this trend early on. Something is terribly wrong in this day and age when a family has been here for generations and not one has a college education. Even more importantly, they see little to no value in an education. It has more to do with priorities than tuition money. My in-law's gardener comes from a long-time Big-3 family and moans about her job and the state of MI every time I see her. I ask why she didn't go to college and she states that she "didn't want to get stuck working behind a desk" and thought a Big-3 job would be waiting for her. That's fine, but please don't hate those who have opportunities based on their merit and achievments.

I attended Wayne State, and must say, it is one of the worst administrated schools around and most of the professors have their noses higher than someone working on their 10th PhD at Harvard. I went to college, got my BA and am 2 classes away from my MA. I was certified to teach in 2005 and have spent two years looking for a job here. Layoff after Layoff, 1600 applicants per position and all.

College isn't the answer anymore. Esp. not in Michigan. Yes college helps, yes everyone should go to college. But even if you go to college you aren't going to get a job just because you went to college. Michigan is full of nepotism, it's who you know, and while it is like that everywhere, it is even more noticeable now that Michigan is hurting economically.

So, while Michigan isn't going to become a black hole of nothingness, the likelihood that it is as "rosy" as some of you are defending isn't the case either. As more graduates move out to get jobs, you are going to begin to notice a tax base shrinkage and an inverted population pyramid, neither of which are good for a state trying to bounce back.

And the reason the majority of students in WSU classes are minorities is simple, location. WSU is in the middle of Detroit, close to Dearborn. Oakland University is predominantly white because of its location. Most "suburban, white" children are going to choose OU over WSU.

On a final note: you can't blame the "dropout" rate on Big-3 generations, my father worked at the Big-3 for over 30 years, and stressed very strongly how important education is. Like anything, it's going to be the parents that invest those values. Maybe they dropped your class and not out of school. It's rather arrogant to assume that they are completely dropping out of school if they withdraw from your class.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by Jim_Kim

Jeffandcandace.......actually they are driving through Monroe to Southgate. They never hit Detroit, we are about 10 miles south of Detroit.

Well Jim_Kim, I just moved to this area in July of 2006, so I don't think this analogy fits me. Again, I don't see much more than what I've seen anywhere else in terms of closed businesses and the like.

[lavendersunrise]

Originally Posted by Jim_Kim

Jeffandcandace.......actually they are driving through Monroe to Southgate. They never hit Detroit, we are about 10 miles south of Detroit.
Cato the Elder...... going to college right out of high school is the smartest thing to do. We had good jobs, I am a nurse and hubby was a truck driver, but was in a car accident and now is disabled (hubby). It is sad that a college grad can't find work too. It is bad all across the US. It is not as easy going back to school when you have a family and need to pay rent/mortgage and other bills. My husband lost his job and we couldn't afford him to take classes to better himself. The comment that I made referred to individuals that may have lost their jobs and wanted to better themselves with a college degree but couldn't afford it. Everyone has different circumstances that may prevent them from going to college. I didn't mean to offend anyone on either side. I remember the time when if you were able to get a BIG 3 job you were lucky. Those times are gone. Now if you have a job you are lucky.

I graduated from college and have read a study that suggested that "this generation" is going to be the worst generation for debt ever. While having a job is great and an education even better, it's not always the smart decision. My friend is getting a communications degree and is roughly 50,000 in debt. Luckily my parents paid for my education but had they not I would have been close to 70,000 in debt (I'm almost finished with an MA). I *STILL* had to move to get a job. I'm a teacher, you'd think that teachers would have stable jobs, but as budget cuts increase and tax base decreases Michigan schools are supplementing teachers with over crowded classrooms.

I agree with you. The abandoned buildings aren't just in Detroit. I currently live in Roseville (a suburb 20-30 miles north of Detroit) and we have a vacant K-mart building that has been vacant since Sears bought K-mart. Then we have 7-10 other "business" sized buildings that are vacant. Let's not forget to mention the numerous homes that are unoccupied at the moment.

I think the people of Michigan can be summed up in two categories; the haves and the haves not. None of us are going to agree, those that have jobs are going to see a bright rainbow filled sky, while the rest of us are seeing thunderstorms.

[Cato the Elder]

We had good jobs, I am a nurse... I remember the time when if you were able to get a BIG 3 job you were lucky. Those times are gone. Now if you have a job you are lucky.

Well, there are 93% "lucky" people in MI then. I will take those odds any day at Vegas. Now if you're talking "good" job, I would guess that the vast majority of the 93% have jobs about as good as the rest of the country. Yeah, no more crazy salaries and pensions turning screws at the GM with no formal education, but that's life.

On a side note, I find it hard to believe that a nurse can't find a job anywhere in the US today unless something else is in play. Yeah, it might not be the most ideal position with nightshifts and whatnot, but the day of importing immigrant nurses to take all the crappy positions are over. It is ultimately about have a j-o-b, isn't it? My condolescence about your husband.

I attended Wayne State, and must say, it is one of the worst administrated schools around and most of the professors have their noses higher than someone working on their 10th PhD at Harvard.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous statements ever. WSU profs are about the most down to earth in academia - you should check out UMich let alone places like Stanford and Princeton. Trust me, the caliber of profs vastly outshines the caliber of students.

College isn't the answer anymore. Esp. not in Michigan. Yes college helps, yes everyone should go to college. But even if you go to college you aren't going to get a job just because you went to college. Michigan is full of nepotism, it's who you know, and while it is like that everywhere, it is even more noticeable now that Michigan is hurting economically.

Yes, college isn't the silver bullet, and it never has been, but it is the minimum these days to be competitive. People who major in underwater basketweaving will not get a job in the best markets in the best of times.

As more graduates move out to get jobs, you are going to begin to notice a tax base shrinkage and an inverted population pyramid, neither of which are good for a state trying to bounce back.

It just means that government will have to shrink. The entire rust belt is dealing with this. It took Philadelphia 40 years to realize that their population would never reach 5 million as predicted and scale back accordingly. There's nothing wrong with that, especially if the people leaving are the ones contributing less and taking more from the pot. All cities that have transitioned successfully from manufacturing to white-collar jobs have benefited from this.

And the reason the majority of students in WSU classes are minorities is simple, location. WSU is in the middle of Detroit, close to Dearborn. Oakland University is predominantly white because of its location. Most "suburban, white" children are going to choose OU over WSU.

It's not just about the demographics; it's about motivation and success. I just don't see it in most of the families that have been here for generations. This is an age-old US problem that has been solved with immigration, but it's especially acute and epidemic in Detroit.

On a final note: you can't blame the "dropout" rate on Big-3 generations, my father worked at the Big-3 for over 30 years, and stressed very strongly how important education is. Like anything, it's going to be the parents that invest those values. Maybe they dropped your class and not out of school. It's rather arrogant to assume that they are completely dropping out of school if they withdraw from your class.

I am just stating an alarming trend with some backing to support it. Good for you and your father - it's much more rare than you think, however. These students dropped out as it's easy to look up a transcript as a prof. Regardless, what difference is there to consistently dropping out of classes or dropping out of school? It's like saying life is fine b/c I live in Afghanistan, not Iraq.

And with your addytude of calling people arrogant and whatnot with erroneous deduction, I can see why people haven't warmed up to you in interviews, lol. I would call it entitlement, but I don't jump to conclusions like some people.

[lavendersunrise]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

It's not just about the demographics; it's about motivation and success. I just don't see it in most of the families that have been here for generations. This is an age-old US problem that has been solved with immigration, but it's especially acute and epidemic in Detroit.

Regardless, what difference is there to consistently dropping out of classes or dropping out of school? It's like saying life is fine b/c I live in Afghanistan, not Iraq.

Demographics has a lot to do with attendance at WSU. If you look at the pool of WSU students it would be very different than that of OU or UMich, etc. A number of WSU students are part-time career changers.

I didn't say ALL the professors were snobby, however, a number of them are. And the difference between dropping out of a class or two and dropping out of school is simple, you can drop a class and not quit the program. I'm sure people in Afghanistan feel their lives are better than those in Iraq. Most college students drop a class or two, it's not uncommon.

And just for your information, my interviews go swimmingly, unfortunately I've lost out to candidates with more experience and that just isn't something I can create out of thin air.

(I am however entitled to an opinion...oh and life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. )

[s.hoffmann]

We are also leaving. Heading to South Carolina. I have lived here all my life and it is breaking my heart, but we need to go where the work is. My husband is already there, and I am here trying to sell the house. My brother hasn't had a pay check in over a year, and he is also looking to move. It's a very scary time for all of us. Security these days mean everything, and that is why we are leaving. There is a record number of foreclosures in our small town, and many of my daughter's friends have had to move out of state, too. I really do hope Michigan can turn itself around because it is a beautiful state with a lot to offer.

[brikag]

I left 19 years ago, headed West, and never looked back!

[wanderer74]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

Well Jim_Kim, I just moved to this area in July of 2006, so I don't think this analogy fits me. Again, I don't see much more than what I've seen anywhere else in terms of closed businesses and the like.

Try coming up here to the Saginaw/Bay City/Midland area. There are tons of closed businesses all over up here. The "official" unemployment rate is around 8% here, but that definitely does NOT mean that the other 92% of adults are gainfully employed. My husband has been looking for a full-time job with benefits since Feb 2006 and has not even gotten an interview since March 07 (and that one was with a temp service for a job that paid $11 an hr). He was never a screw-turner and doesn't have the mentality that he expects something for nothing, but it should NOT be so hard for a man with 10+ years of good work experience, 3 years of college education and great references to have such a hard time finding a better job than the one he has. Maybe it is the same in other states, but in this area there is a HUGE gap between the haves and the have nots.

Every week I'm reading of more companies across the country laying off workers, so maybe the problem is not confined to Michigan. But it's bad and getting worse up here in the Saginaw/Bay/Midland area.

[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by wanderer74

Every week I'm reading of more companies across the country laying off workers, so maybe the problem is not confined to Michigan.

This is your most salient point. Things in general aren't that fabulous in the US and in the Rust Belt in particular. If you have a better opportunity in a different state, good for you! I just don't get the bashing of people who chose to come to MI b/c it was THEIR best opportunity. Nope, there are people who are actually moving here for good jobs, and they are not delusional or lying. We should feel bad for people losing jobs and homes, but why not also feel good for people who are suceeding in MI and helping the state move on? I would really like to know what these indiscriminate bashers have personally done to make MI a better place during their time here. And no, just the shear fact of having lived here for 50 years isn't enough b/c you could have easily sat on your @&& getting fat the whole time without a care for others as long as you got yours.