[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by enli

I live in Royal Oak, too - if you're not seeing businesses shutting down, I don't know where you're looking but it's not downtown Royal Oak. It's a great city, but before long, the tax base is going to be too crazy to live with. The city planners are really doing a rotten job of keeping this a community that everyone can enjoy.

One cannot ignore "The City Next Door" and live in the fantasy world that just because Detroit is dying - and it is - that it will never effect the rest of the state - because it has, and it will continue to.

For the rose colored glasses folks, read some of the statistics. Your small corner of the world might be very comfortable (mine is, certainly) but if those of us who are doing a-ok think that the rest of the state is never going to affect our lifestyle, then those glasses aren't just rose colored, they're total black outs.

http://www.milmi.org/

Nearly seven percent unemployment - and unemployment doesn't count people who don't have jobs, just those collecting benefits - that doesn't address those who don't have any further benefits due or the millions on welfare.

Michigan payroll jobs - down 56,000 over the last year.

Consumer prices up 1.6%.

Employment in nonfarm jobs in metropolitan areas - down, down, down.

I'm looking for a house to rent and wondered if there was going to be something available for the next two years that I could live with. In looking around, what I found again and again was that there are tons of houses available in Royal Oak - that struck me as odd so I began asking the realtors I spoke to why there were so many rentals available. Answer? Because people cannot afford to keep their homes but they cannot sell them, either, so they've had to find other places to live and now are renting out the overpriced homes they could once afford.

Housing, and many other attributes of the cost of living in this area have been artitifcically inflated due to overpaid Union/auto jobs over the past 40 years.

Yes, my job is not going anywhere. I'm a critical shortage area teacher in Detroit and I'll be employed until I choose not to be, but anyone who cannot see beyond their own situation to the blinding poverty and the deep problems with employment, housing, cost of living, etc., definitely has blinders on.

Yeah, and there have been stores shutting down in Birmingham like people walking through a revolving door for the past 10 years. Main streets have become ghost towns all over the US for years and to say RO is similar to them at all is ridiculous. If some have rose-colored glasses on, you have black-out glasses on and see nothing but darkness.

The entire US is suffering from the housing bubble from the past 10 years. Yes, the situation in metro Detroit is esacerbated by the Big-3, but to basically agree to the posts that say that MI is 3rd World at this point is ridiculous. The comparison to Memphis is especially hilarious - talk about rose-colored glasses, lmao!

No one here is ignoring the foreclosures and people at Delphi "suffering." Yet the doom-and-gloomers who amass here are the ones so quick to dismiss any news about good developments. So be it. I'm sure it will be like this until the Big-3 downsize and stop hemorraging money. In the meantime, some of us here are enjoying our dogfood, but maybe the millions of us should just quit our jobs and wallow in our misery to join the 50,000 without union auto jobs - boohoo.

[enli]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Main streets have become ghost towns all over the US for years and to say RO is similar to them at all is ridiculous.

Please point out in my post where I said that.

BTW, I say Memphis as a generality. Our new home will be in Collierville - median income around $83K, crime nill, area beautiful, clean and on an economic upswing. Don't want to settle there? That's fine, but please define what you think of as "good developments" in Michigan.

It's nice that you feel secure enough to dismiss 50,000 people and their families and the pain that accompanies loss of livelihood, home and community.

[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by enli

Please point out in my post where I said that.

BTW, I say Memphis as a generality. Our new home will be in Collierville - median income around $83K, crime nill, area beautiful, clean and on an economic upswing. Don't want to settle there? That's fine, but please define what you think of as "good developments" in Michigan.

It's nice that you feel secure enough to dismiss 50,000 people and their families and the pain that accompanies loss of livelihood, home and community.

All I'm asking for is balance and you just don't get it here anymore. There have been hundreds of thousands without a job in MI for decades, even in the good times. Why all the bile, bitterness, and hatred now? Yes, it sucks that tens of thousands have been added to this list, but the propensity for a relatively few people to post "MI is the Titanic" and "anyone who stays is stupid" posts is getting outrageous. There are still some of us who come on here to live life, get info, and disperse info - that is until someone butts in with a tantrum determined to not let anyone else enjoy life if they can't. Look at all the threads - they eventually veer that way when a totally unproductive post chimes in with ridiculous apocalyptic statements, usually by the same, tired posters using a new alias after getting banned.

[JenJohnson]

This economy is ridiculous! My husband, our toddler daughter and I will be moving to Oak Park by the end of the month from Detroit for two reasons:
1) Our area Rosedale Park is quickly becoming an unsafe area
2) Big House = Big Bills; Small House = Small Bills. We're opting for the smaller house.

After my husband completes his Master's degree, we' may pack up and leave the state altogether.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

All I'm asking for is balance and you just don't get it here anymore. There have been hundreds of thousands without a job in MI for decades, even in the good times. Why all the bile, bitterness, and hatred now? Yes, it sucks that tens of thousands have been added to this list, but the propensity for a relatively few people to post "MI is the Titanic" and "anyone who stays is stupid" posts is getting outrageous. There are still some of us who come on here to live life, get info, and disperse info - that is until someone butts in with a tantrum determined to not let anyone else enjoy life if they can't. Look at all the threads - they eventually veer that way when a totally unproductive post chimes in with ridiculous apocalyptic statements, usually by the same, tired posters using a new alias after getting banned.

I double dare everyone to go over the most viewed posts in the Michigan forums and see if what is being said by Cato here isn't 100% true! Seriously! Do it! Anyone with a brain can see which posters have a more balanced and realistic viewpoint. I can't even count how many times I have posted the words "Nobody is saying Michigan is a Utopia!" or "Nobody is saying that times aren't tough!" or "We aren't blind, and things may-and probably will-get worse before they get better!"...but none of it matters! If I don't have a post-apocalyptic viewpoint of Michigan, for now and forever, then I'm "wearing rose-colored glasses".

So again, no one trying to defend this great state is saying that times aren't tough. I'll even go so far as to say it will definately get worse before it gets better, IMHO. But for god's sake, STOP with all the personal attacks againts those who, whether you like it or not, actually like it here and are doing well for the time being.

If you aren't doing well, my sincere sympathy goes out to you. Heck, it goes out to myself! I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination. But we make it, and I look around at the area I live in, and I like it! Yesterday the wife and I took the kids out just driving through some neighborhoods in RO then Ferndale. We drove down 9 Mile in Ferndale and loved the, ahem, "family friendly" environment: it reminded us of Hillcrest in San Diego. Then we drove up Main Street in RO. We parked and got the kids some ice cream at Cold Stone, then we walked over to Barnes & Nobles and hung out there for a little while. We left and drove on over to Trader Joe's on Woodward, then headed home. Things didn't look desperate to me...but then again, maybe I was wearing my rose-colored glasses again.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

I double dare everyone to go over the most viewed posts in the Michigan forums and see if what is being said by Cato here isn't 100% true! Seriously! Do it! Anyone with a brain can see which posters have a more balanced and realistic viewpoint. I can't even count how many times I have posted the words "Nobody is saying Michigan is a Utopia!" or "Nobody is saying that times aren't tough!" or "We aren't blind, and things may-and probably will-get worse before they get better!"...but none of it matters! If I don't have a post-apocalyptic viewpoint of Michigan, for now and forever, then I'm "wearing rose-colored glasses".

So again, no one trying to defend this great state is saying that times aren't tough. I'll even go so far as to say it will definately get worse before it gets better, IMHO. But for god's sake, STOP with all the personal attacks againts those who, whether you like it or not, actually like it here and are doing well for the time being.

If you aren't doing well, my sincere sympathy goes out to you. Heck, it goes out to myself! I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination. But we make it, and I look around at the area I live in, and I like it! Yesterday the wife and I took the kids out just driving through some neighborhoods in RO then Ferndale. We drove down 9 Mile in Ferndale and loved the, ahem, "family friendly" environment: it reminded us of Hillcrest in San Diego. Then we drove up Main Street in RO. We parked and got the kids some ice cream at Cold Stone, then we walked over to Barnes & Nobles and hung out there for a little while. We left and drove on over to Trader Joe's on Woodward, then headed home. Things didn't look desperate to me...but then again, maybe I was wearing my rose-colored glasses again.

Wouldnt' it be cool if you could ride a light rail line around all those areas, instead of driving everywhere Jeff? I think about that in Grand Rapids all the time.

(cue angry hate filled post by troll berating mass transit as wasteful )

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by magellan

Wouldnt' it be cool if you could ride a light rail line around all those areas, instead of driving everywhere Jeff? I think about that in Grand Rapids all the time.

(cue angry hate filled post by troll berating mass transit as wasteful )

I would love it. San Diego has a trolley system that's just great! Detroit seems to be behind the times in regards to mass transit.

And the hate filled post will definately come along, just give it time...

[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

Detroit seems to be behind the times in regards to mass transit.

Unfortunately, I think Detroit was too much into the "future." There was a streetcar that ran right down Woodward Ave and one that ran down Main St and Rochester Rd. I'm sure there were others in the metro area that eventually gave way to cars.

I thought one of the most innovative recent ideas to combat the overuse of cars was to put a skywalk over Woodward for bicycles and pedestrians - probably never happen though due to costs and opposition.

It gets worse than that. Very few people know that GM single-handedly crippled mass transit in the SF Bay Area. Many decades ago, they secretly bought the operator of the light rail that traveled from the East Bay over the Bay Bridge into the city. Subsequently, they slowly started to dismantle it until it was no more! That's why the Bay Bridge is a double-decker - cars on the top deck orginally, trolleys and trucks on the lower deck. Gives you warm fuzzies about GM, eh?

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Unfortunately, I think Detroit was too much into the "future." There was a streetcar that ran right down Woodward Ave and one that ran down Main St and Rochester Rd. I'm sure there were others in the metro area that eventually gave way to cars.

I thought one of the most innovative recent ideas to combat the overuse of cars was to put a skywalk over Woodward for bicycles and pedestrians - probably never happen though due to costs and opposition.

It gets worse than that. Very few people know that GM single-handedly crippled mass transit in the SF Bay Area. Many decades ago, they secretly bought the operator of the light rail that traveled from the East Bay over the Bay Bridge into the city. Subsequently, they slowly started to dismantle it until it was no more! That's why the Bay Bridge is a double-decker - cars on the top deck orginally, trolleys and trucks on the lower deck. Gives you warm fuzzies about GM, eh?

GM, through a conglomeration of oil and tire companies called National City Lines, did that to about every city in the country. There were even streetcar (light rail systems) in small cities like Lansing, Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo at one time in the beginning of the 20th century. GM bought up all the streetcar lines, shut them down and replaced them with buses.

It's all over the history books and internet, but here's Wiki's take on it:

Great American Streetcar Scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'd actually be surprised if there are people who don't know this went down under GM's watch.

Have you seen Sony Pictures Classics Presents : Who Killed the Electric Car?. I haven't, but I hear it's pretty good.

[UpperPeninsulaRon]

Originally Posted by millenniumman35

I feel bad for all you folks in Michigan dealing with these tough times ahead. I have alot of loved ones from Michigan. I left 4 yrs ago, and now live in Arizona. Economy, Real-estate, job market are all prettty strong in AZ. What happend to my state? Other then the beloved Tigers, Redwings & Pistons its really depressing. I have heard so much about the tanking real estate market, factories closing, layoffs etc. I feel for all of you struggling, and just wonder how the afflicted are working through the tough times for a better tommorow. By the sound of things it will get worse before it gets better....I just wonder what it will take to turn Michigan around. God bless you Michiganders!

Yes, it is as simple as that. We need a governor who understands business and encourages it. As an example, in the Upper Peninsula where I live, a local man wanted to invest in a business venture in Escanaba. The Governor's Department of Environmental Quality is holding the investor hostage requiring added money and lengthly delays to meet some environmental standard for toilets!
I can only speak for the UP, but the Governor wants to divert all money to Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Lansing, Flint, and Muskegon and create a social welfare state while leaving all the rest of the state to some kind of "pristine environmental experiment" and not encourage business.
We Yoopers should really once again look at the "Superior" state option. We could encourage business and not divert all that tax money to very select parts of the current state. The Superior state would have excellent quality of life, encourage growth of new business, eliminate useless regulations, and we would really have something - like job creation and a "Superior" standard of living!