[magellan]

Originally Posted by mi6

This site is fast becoming a back slaping for three posters cato,jeff and megillen. You seem to change their posts or ban anyone who dissagrees with you.

Huh? Just in this thread alone there are numerous posts from both sides of the issue. The people being banned are probably the ones who don't know how to disagree without throwing a childish temper tantrum and calling everyone staying here in Michigan "dumb".

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by magellan

Huh? Just in this thread alone there are numerous posts from both sides of the issue. The people being banned are probably the ones who don't know how to disagree without throwing a childish temper tantrum and calling everyone staying here in Michigan "dumb".

It's obvious to all but the deaf dumb and blind that what Magellen is saying here is totally true. What we have is one ticked off person with too much time on their hands and since he or she can't stand having their ridiculous comments completely disproven time and again they make up different names and troll away. Guess what troll? Your inflammatory posts will be deleted over and over again.

If someone has a differing opinion, that's fine! Anyone at anytime is free to go back over the posts in all the threads and they will see that posts with dissenting opinions are not deleted. In fact, I have twice defended a poster with whom I disagree quite frequently! Someone insulted her, and I deleted the insults and gave infractions to the people I normally agree with! But insults, "flaming", and "trolling" are against City-Data terms of service and as moderator I am required to enforce those rules.

So keep it up, troll--Administration is vere aware of you and soon you'll find it quite difficult to keep up your spiteful antics.

[millenniumman35]

When I started this post, it was never intended to bash Michigan, or to make people feel "dumb" for staying. It was to hear opinions, stories, and real experiences that people are going through. Some people are making it just fine, some people are struggling but coming up with ways to endure the economy, and some people are feeling forced to move elsewhere. Through the discussion, maybe someone might read all the responses, and can relate it to themselves where it might either help their situation, or at the very least change their perspective. I don't enjoy reading threads when it turns to insults or verbal volleyball. My understanding is that this forum is a place where people from either a city or state can discuss openly their concerns and opinions about where they live. Its been interesting in reading the different replys. I do think its funny how narrow sighted, or even the"denial" that some people project. Oh well, thats human nature.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by millenniumman35

When I started this post, it was never intended to bash Michigan, or to make people feel "dumb" for staying. It was to hear opinions, stories, and real experiences that people are going through. Some people are making it just fine, some people are struggling but coming up with ways to endure the economy, and some people are feeling forced to move elsewhere. Through the discussion, maybe someone might read all the responses, and can relate it to themselves where it might either help their situation, or at the very least change their perspective. I don't enjoy reading threads when it turns to insults or verbal volleyball. My understanding is that this forum is a place where people from either a city or state can discuss openly their concerns and opinions about where they live. Its been interesting in reading the different replys. I do think its funny how narrow sighted, or even the"denial" that some people project. Oh well, thats human nature.

I agree with your assessment millenniumman35. Michigan's economy is in rough shape, especially the automotive and manufacturing industries, and the economic multiplier effect is working in reverse for Michigan now. It affects the housing market, the retail market, professional service firms, healthcare organizations, and on and on. It has also caused a huge decrease in revenue for the State, which exasperbates the problem because cuts needs to be made in state services, such as parks and rec, education, infrastructure repair, and so on. It may even require tax increases to keep the state out of even worse dire straits. It's been done before and the world will not come to an end. Michigan's tax base is still right about at the national average, and will still be with a small tax increase.

I agree that if anyone doesn't think that, that they are in denial or are exhibiting cognitive dissonance.

However, with that being said, what bothers me is when people come on here spewing hatred and poisonous bile toward the state and the people who have chosen to stay here. Saying things like "I feel sorry for the idiots", or "how dumb people are". It grates me to no end, and I'm not going to sit and watch it happen. And if it means the people doing it get banned or edited, so be it. It does nothing to create an environment for people to learn about the state who don't live here now, or to discuss possible solutions to Michigan's problems. Believe it or not, there are millions of people who want to live in Michigan, and many people who are being transferred to Michigan for a job. How should those people be treated? Are we being good neighbors and helpful fellow human beings, or are we hell-bent on making the world match our own miserable attitude.

It's called "trolling". Unfortunately there are people in this world who have self-destructive and hate-filled personalities, who get pleasure from slamming on other people for being positive or just being "normal". It's nothing new, and you can find it on any online forum from there to Timbuktu. They usually expose themselves within 2 - 3 posts, and usually on the first time they are challenged on anything. Most likely they're probably 16 year olds who got grounded for taking Dad's car without permission. Again I'm not talking about the people who are thinking of moving or are unemployed, who have every right to be depressed and angry. I'm talking about the childish antics and name-calling. There's no way these people would do it if they were sitting at a table with you. They just like to hide behind the anonymoty of their computer screen. I'd gladly share my positive outlook with any reasonably minded person on this forum over a cup of coffee or a beer.

The best thing to do with the repeat offenders who just keep re-registering after being banned is to see if you can permanently ban their IP address, so that they can't re-register (note to jeffncandace).

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by magellan

I agree with your assessment millenniumman35. Michigan's economy is in rough shape, especially the automotive and manufacturing industries, and the economic multiplier effect is working in reverse for Michigan now. It affects the housing market, the retail market, professional service firms, healthcare organizations, and on and on. It has also caused a huge decrease in revenue for the State, which exasperbates the problem because cuts needs to be made in state services, such as parks and rec, education, infrastructure repair, and so on. It may even require tax increases to keep the state out of even worse dire straits. It's been done before and the world will not come to an end. Michigan's tax base is still right about at the national average, and will still be with a small tax increase.

I agree that if anyone doesn't think that, that they are in denial or are exhibiting cognitive dissonance.

However, with that being said, what bothers me is when people come on here spewing hatred and poisonous bile toward the state and the people who have chosen to stay here. Saying things like "I feel sorry for the idiots", or "how dumb people are". It grates me to no end, and I'm not going to sit and watch it happen. And if it means the people doing it get banned or edited, so be it. It does nothing to create an environment for people to learn about the state who don't live here now, or to discuss possible solutions to Michigan's problems. Believe it or not, there are millions of people who want to live in Michigan, and many people who are being transferred to Michigan for a job. How should those people be treated? Are we being good neighbors and helpful fellow human beings, or are we hell-bent on making the world match our own miserable attitude.

It's called "trolling". Unfortunately there are people in this world who have self-destructive and hate-filled personalities, who get pleasure from slamming on other people for being positive or just being "normal". It's nothing new, and you can find it on any online forum from there to Timbuktu. They usually expose themselves within 2 - 3 posts, and usually on the first time they are challenged on anything. Most likely they're probably 16 year olds who got grounded for taking Dad's car without permission. Again I'm not talking about the people who are thinking of moving or are unemployed, who have every right to be depressed and angry. I'm talking about the childish antics and name-calling. There's no way these people would do it if they were sitting at a table with you. They just like to hide behind the anonymoty of their computer screen. I'd gladly share my positive outlook with any reasonably minded person on this forum over a cup of coffee or a beer.

The best thing to do with the repeat offenders who just keep re-registering after being banned is to see if you can permanently ban their IP address, so that they can't re-register (note to jeffncandace).

Just click on the red triangle in the upper right hand corner of any posts and that will alert a mod to the questionable post.

And I'm with you Magellan, these trolls really tick me off! A reasonably stated opinion is fine, but the crap that we keep fighting is just ridiculous!

[enli]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

Then we drove up Main Street in RO. We parked and got the kids some ice cream at Cold Stone, then we walked over to Barnes & Nobles and hung out there for a little while. We left and drove on over to Trader Joe's on Woodward, then headed home. Things didn't look desperate to me...but then again, maybe I was wearing my rose-colored glasses again.

Maybe you were. These photographs were taken today of the Royal Oak downtown area - from Eleven Mile to about Lincoln, between Main and Washington, including some of the side streets. For those not familiar with the area, this is less than a square mile of the downtown area.

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y248/nevali/royal-oak/

Driving around a bit in the neighborhood for less than an hour, I saw 100+ for sale signs on homes. I love Royal Oak, but anyone who thinks it doesn't have any problems is definitely not taking a realistic view.

[colormegreen]

Trolls are everywhere and this one probably isn't even from Michigan or in the state just trying to cause problems like they all do on any of these forums. Best to ignore and report so the moderators can take care of them.

[Cato the Elder]

Two dead giveaways are aliases which make a dubious statement (e.g. MIisintrouble, dumbpeoplestay, etc.) and posters whose first post just dives into the discussion without missing a beat and instantly smells of bile.

Ultimately, I judge posts by how helpful they are, whether I agree with their opinions or not. For example, I am diametrically opposed to many aspects of RedWing's worldview, but I find that she often has helpful posts. More often than not, the doom-and-gloom posts have no new information nor anything constructive to add.

[MainStreet]

Originally Posted by enli

Maybe you were. These photographs were taken today of the Royal Oak downtown area - from Eleven Mile to about Lincoln, between Main and Washington, including some of the side streets. For those not familiar with the area, this is less than a square mile of the downtown area.

nevali/royal-oak - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Driving around a bit in the neighborhood for less than an hour, I saw 100+ for sale signs on homes. I love Royal Oak, but anyone who thinks it doesn't have any problems is definitely not taking a realistic view.

I'm so sorry to see this happening to Royal Oak. I read recently that there are 50,000 homes for sale in the Detroit area. I do believe this is a mere fingerprint of what is happening all over the country. We have similar problems in Indianapolis...the foreclosure capital...

It's all about quality of life...employment wise, you do what you do what you have to...I would still choose anywhere in Michigan over any other place in the Midwest. It's time for residents to reinvent themselves. Can't wait to move back...I should never have left.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by enli

Maybe you were. These photographs were taken today of the Royal Oak downtown area - from Eleven Mile to about Lincoln, between Main and Washington, including some of the side streets. For those not familiar with the area, this is less than a square mile of the downtown area.

nevali/royal-oak - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Driving around a bit in the neighborhood for less than an hour, I saw 100+ for sale signs on homes. I love Royal Oak, but anyone who thinks it doesn't have any problems is definitely not taking a realistic view.

This is laughable. There are tons of businesses and homes in that area...your pictures don't represent the overall picture when walking around. I was just there!

Royal Oak is located in Michigan, and Michigan is going through a tough time right now! Again (how many times must I post this?) NO ONE IS SAYING TIMES AREN'T TOUGH! I simply refuse to believe we are on a sinking ship called the USS Michigan!

Again (yet again!), should all 10 million Michiganders pack up and leave the state?