[magellan]

Great thread! I must have missed it while I was away. I'll share some positives:

1) Drove by Nucraft Furniture today Northeast of Grand Rapids and there is a HUGE "Now Hiring" sign out front. Of course, it says "General Labor" and "Machinists" but hey, I haven't seen a sign like that in a while.

2) In the GR Business Journal today, they stated that according to the State of Wyoming, which has had numerous (somewhat successful) job fairs in Michigan to lure people away to job shortages in mining and other industries, half of the people who moved to Wyoming in the past three years have moved back to Michigan already.

3) In a bizarre turn of events, West Michigan farmers have had to destroy thousands of acres of crops recently because they have a shortage of workers to harvest them. (Don't know if that is positive or negative). Anyone feel like picking asparagus?

4) Several exciting new projects have surfaced for downtown Grand Rapids recently, all being driven by a need for office expansion for Plante & Moran, Christman Co. and another yet-to-be-named office user.

5) I personally have been asked to provide some new work for a client which will increase our income a tad.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Originally Posted by okie2

the increse of 2000 to 2006 is not put into prespective, you are taking the good run then adding the fist year of down turn, michigan is just on the edge of the run down. The people who are acting like every thing is ok have their head up you know what. Michigan is not just "a little down for this year" it is on the way to a very bad place. just like we all are if we elect an idiot like bush again

That may be true, but it is difficult to know at this stage how many new blood in the form of immigrants will offset this outward migration. I'm not saying everything is ok with Michigan but it is unfair to characterize this downturn before all the facts are available.

[BurtsBees]

Looking up? Im seeing the Detroit decay spreading north, slowly ruining stuff in the area. I cant stand to see it happen here, I need to move out of this state.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey

That may be true, but it is difficult to know at this stage how many new blood in the form of immigrants will offset this outward migration. I'm not saying everything is ok with Michigan but it is unfair to characterize this downturn before all the facts are available.

The population increase is mostly likely due to more "babies being born than people dying". The difference between those two, plus international immigration, is just high enough to offset negative net domestic migration (more people leaving than coming).

The following site does a good job of breaking down the census estimates (that's all they are between decades, so they're not set in stone):

Michigan Population and Components of Change

But hey, this is a positive topic. Markablue (admin) said enough is enough with the Michigan bashing topics.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Thanks Magellan, that was an interesting chart. I think slow to no growth in population is not necessarily a bad thing. The opposite, huge uncontrollable growth, is much worse IMO. However, Michigan needs to diversify its economy away from the Big Three. The city of Detroit should try to harness its geographic location by stressing international trade and logistics with Canada, if they are not already.

[M TYPE X]

Originally Posted by BurtsBees

Looking up? Im seeing the Detroit decay spreading north, slowly ruining stuff in the area. I cant stand to see it happen here, I need to move out of this state.

The roads are awful anywhere in the Detroit metro area. You used to be able to cruise Woodward in Bloomfield Hills smoothly. Now, it's police AND potholes.

[TeacherMan]

Originally Posted by Kingsnkali

According to the NEA, average teacher salary in Michigan is 58k. Very few states are that high. High cost California is 59k. New York 57k. Mass 56k. Illinois 58k. Wisconsin 46k. Minnesota 48k. Ohio 50k. Indiana 47k.

I wouldn't go so far to say that Michigan teachers are overpaid, but they sure aren't underpaid. And that list above wasn't the cheap states either. Those states were in the 30's and 40's/year for average salaries.

Teachers and other public employees of Michigan have to share the pain too. The state is bleeding as workers/homeowners/businesses bail elsewhere.

The state has got to roll out the red carpet for business. Repeat...the state has got to roll out the red carpet for business. The Governor should tell the public employee unions "not a dime more". Transit unions ditto. Let them all go out on strike. Doesn't matter. The piggy bank is empty. What really matters is getting business to stay, move to or expand in Michigan. JOBS. JOBS. JOBS.

The AVERAGE salary for MI teachers is INFLATED by the teachers salaries in Wayne and Oakland counties. Those of us who teach outside of those counties do not make anywhere close to that money! MOST of us make in the 30's and 40's.
Regarding whether or not we are underpaid...that depends. If you think making $1 per child per hour is not underpaid (far less than a baby-sitter) in order to educate a child...well then I guess I am not underpaid.
I DO concur with your assessment on the need for diversification in MI economy. The thing that made us great in from the 40' to the 80's (maybe even 90's?), i.e. the auto industry, has now become the anchor pulling us down.
I hope things get better...but I not holding my breath...

[TeacherMan]

Sorry...I should not have put "average" in caps and bold... please forgive my lack of posting etiquette...I was not screaming...
-TM

[jeffncandace]

This thread is supposed to be a positive one. We Michiganders hear enough doom and gloom as it is, because let's face it: things are tough right now.

The original question was if anyone else had noticed positives happening instead of negatives. Let's please stick to that. There is no need for arbitrarily negative comments on this particular thread.

Thanks everyone!

[JimmyInGreatLakes]

I have mixed feelings towards teachers and their salaries. It's not a job that I'd do and I appreciate the teacher's who truly do a good job. I also find it onerous to require a whole year of unpaid teaching before they are qualified.

However, to say that you make less than a dollar per student hour is misleading. Count your benefits into the equation, which are likely 40-60% more than your raw pay and it can't possibly be below $1. WITH four weeks vacations and holidays, I work about 225-230 days a year. Teachers in Michigan average at most 185 days mandatory attendance (and still allowed some personal days within that), while the kids actually attend about 175-180 days. For retirement purposes, 1080 hours qualify for one year...this is 180 days at 6 hours a day (the actual class time per day). I realize some teachers arrive early and stay late and work more than six hours/day but if you want to talk $$$/actual student hour, if you make $40,000, divide by 1080, you'd need 37 students in every class just to make your equation based on your RAW pay.


Every position open in our modest school district get's hundreds of applications, another indicator that the positions are hardly underpaid. Also, I don't know of many other professions that increases are AUTOMATIC based on receiving advanced degrees. Where I work and most other jobs, once you receive that advanced degree you interview/plead/etc. to utilize it.