[JimmyInGreatLakes]

Forgot the positive comments. Michigan is great because:

- No LA/Denver/Chicago etc. traffic
- Much water everywhere, lots of green & blue.
- Varied seasons. Yes, I don't mind winter. November and March are a drag because of the transitional weather but otherwise, I appreciate most anytime of year here.
- The cold weather gives us clear streams and smaller/less nasty insects or creatures that sting/bite/etc.
- The Lions (sarcasm)

[TeacherMan]

Originally Posted by JimmyInGreatLakes

I have mixed feelings towards teachers and their salaries. It's not a job that I'd do and I appreciate the teacher's who truly do a good job. I also find it onerous to require a whole year of unpaid teaching before they are qualified.

However, to say that you make less than a dollar per student hour is misleading. Count your benefits into the equation, which are likely 40-60% more than your raw pay and it can't possibly be below $1. WITH four weeks vacations and holidays, I work about 225-230 days a year. Teachers in Michigan average at most 185 days mandatory attendance (and still allowed some personal days within that), while the kids actually attend about 175-180 days. For retirement purposes, 1080 hours qualify for one year...this is 180 days at 6 hours a day (the actual class time per day). I realize some teachers arrive early and stay late and work more than six hours/day but if you want to talk $$$/actual student hour, if you make $40,000, divide by 1080, you'd need 37 students in every class just to make your equation based on your RAW pay.


Every position open in our modest school district get's hundreds of applications, another indicator that the positions are hardly underpaid. Also, I don't know of many other professions that increases are AUTOMATIC based on receiving advanced degrees. Where I work and most other jobs, once you receive that advanced degree you interview/plead/etc. to utilize it.

Jimmy, I appreciate your assistance in my recalculation. If you take my 42,000 salary, add 50% for benefits, divide that by 1080 (my contact hours with/for kids) [NOT including time spent outside of the school day], and divide by 30 kids per hour (my approx. class size), the corrected answer is about $2.00/hour per child ($1.94 to be exact).

The fact that there are hundreds of applicants only reinforces that there are many good hearted people who believe in educating future generations, even with low compensation, especially in MI (there's my positive comment).
Regarding the calender...I be more than happy to teach 10 or even 11 months, especially if it meant higher wage. Teachers have little to no control over the calender.
Regarding the automatic raises, you have the auto unions to thank for that. The teachers union has just followed suit. I, for one, would be delighted if teachers' raises had correlation to classroom performance, and could not agree with you more that automatic raises (in any field) are a bit ridiculous.
One final comment in regard to higher education. Being a teacher in MI is one of the few professions that REQUIRES you to work toward a Master to keep your license, while most districts do not assist teacher with the tuition.
Thank you for realizing and appreciating the hard work that many of us teachers do.

[jeffncandace]

You guys, I hate to be a nag, but you need to start a different thread if you want to continue discussing Michigan teacher's salaries/issues. I'm all for the teachers, but this thread is for posting positives about Michigan. Thanks for your compliance.

[Fenton Old Timer]

It would be wonderful if Michigan was looking up. Unfortunately I think it will take longer than we think. I do believe that Michigan will eventually rebound, but after living in the same town and in Michigan 48 years, we had to move because of lack of employment and move to Arizona. We still have snow, and still miss Michigan terribly. When we moved out here, our home was for sale in Fenton Michigan for over 6 months. Had to lower the price 40K. Houses out here are very expensive....about 3.5 x as much as the mortgage in Michigan, but we do have jobs. Unfortunately things got so bad for the person that bought our old house, they had to put it up for sale when they lost their job but became so desperate that they committed suicide. Its really sad to see our wonderful state in such ruin. My ancestors came her to work in the factories and that is what always put food on our tables. So if anyone sees that homes are selling and jobs are being added, I pray that is right. Michigan is a wonderful state with wonderful people.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Fenton Old Timer

It would be wonderful if Michigan was looking up. Unfortunately I think it will take longer than we think. I do believe that Michigan will eventually rebound, but after living in the same town and in Michigan 48 years, we had to move because of lack of employment and move to Arizona. We still have snow, and still miss Michigan terribly. When we moved out here, our home was for sale in Fenton Michigan for over 6 months. Had to lower the price 40K. Houses out here are very expensive....about 3.5 x as much as the mortgage in Michigan, but we do have jobs. Unfortunately things got so bad for the person that bought our old house, they had to put it up for sale when they lost their job but became so desperate that they committed suicide. Its really sad to see our wonderful state in such ruin. My ancestors came her to work in the factories and that is what always put food on our tables. So if anyone sees that homes are selling and jobs are being added, I pray that is right. Michigan is a wonderful state with wonderful people.

I don't know jeffncandace, do you think this qualifies as something positive?

I'll see if I can restart this one:

WOODTV.com & WOOD TV8 - Grand Rapids news, weather, sports and video - Workers move from manufacturing to medicine

A program called ACT, funded by the major healthcare organizations in GR, has been started to help manufacturing workers transfer applicable skillsets to the rapidly growing healthcare and health sciences industries in the Grand Rapids area.

Sounds good to me!

[jeffncandace]

Good post Magellan!

I don't wanna come across like a jerk. But as a mod, we are expected to enforce the rules, which include keeping the posts on topic. Fenton's post is at least hopeful in tone, and is on the original topic, unlike the whole "teacher" discussion.

Post on, posters!

[nycjefftrain]

jeffncandace-

I love your posts!! I'm a Michigan native(Farmington Hills) and left the state at 20 to pursue my acting career. I live just outside of NYC and I don't understand why people like it here. So damn busy, rude people, etc...I miss Michigan but I always thought it was only because I'm from there and my family and friends are there. But reading your post from an outsider(esp. from SoCal) are encouraging. If Detroit had the entertainment base that NY or LA had, I would be back yesterday.(but hey.....Detroit is looking for new industry!!...Why not??? get a few TV and movie studios...anyway, this is for another thread...LOL)Michigan has so many positives its not even funny. Naysayers just hate themselves and their life. I suggest Prozac.

The area you are in is awesome. I love Royal Oak and somebody must have cash becuase last time I was there, they are putting up $$$ lofts everywhere. Good for the area...no to mention the $$$ lofts going up in downtown Detroit. If ppl with $$$ for those condos are moving downtown, it will spur more and more business.

Also, the poster that referred to Philadelphia...you are right on!! I usually compare Detroit to Philadelphia and it easily can become what Philly is today.

[JimmyInGreatLakes]

I'm not a fan of big cities (e.g. NYC) and really won't mind if I'm never in/near one again. I would barely classify Detroit as a "big city" so, for the most part, living in Michigan affords me the the chance to be away from the crowds as noted by NYCJEFFTRAIN. Plenty of open space (support your local nature conservancy please) and places to go to be "away from it all".

[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by nycjefftrain

Also, the poster that referred to Philadelphia...you are right on!! I usually compare Detroit to Philadelphia and it easily can become what Philly is today.

One has to hope that an "Ed Rendell" will come around for Detroit - someone who honestly cares about the city and will make the tough decisions for Detroit's long-term future instead of sacrificing it to meet people's short-term felt needs. I'm not sure this will happen until more people who sincerely care about the city's future move in. Even then, it might take something like the Philadelphia MOVE bombing to mobilize people for change.

[D_J]

Being in the mortgage industry myself it has been definately a tough time here in Michigan. We see many, many homes for sale that just sit for a length of time while many do go to foreclosure. But we have also started to see more people applying for new mortgages (purchases) in the past couple of months than in quite awhile. I do agree that we as a state need to become less dependent on the auto industry but that is who we are. People have always lived beyond their means and when things get tight they blame everything else but themselves. Sorry don't mean to rant but I see it every day. Time for more coffee..........