[M TYPE X]

At one point, Detroit was one of the largest cities in the country due to growth of the industrial sector. The decline is not yet complete, and may be arrested if the sun/moon/stars all aligned (that would be like getting rid of Mole and the entire crew, both inside and outside of official office).

In comparison, Japan's "making stuff" place - Nagoya/Aichi, home to Toyota and formerly the home of the command and control centers for the Pearl Harbor attacks (they had their facilities, just as we had our Willow Run), is in growth mode! 9 million people and rising, instead of metro Detroit's 4-5 million people and 'holding firm.' That's a population size similar more to Chicagoland than Detroit. Japan's Chicagoland (the western/midland pole of Kansai, home to Osaka) has 20 million people, rivaling both Los Angeles and New York-New Jersey. Of course, it would take twice as many people to occupy the NY-NJ metroplex to rival Tokyo-Yokohama, and I think the world only really needs one metropolis of 30-40 million people.

Bottom line: yes, Detroit is a 'small' city, yet people have heard of it due to its previous position of punching great weight. I suspect my girlfriend from Nagoya will have to say 1) wow, what a blighted insignificant dump and 2) your parents are really nice. I would prefer the latter before the former, but that's wishing for you. Sunbelt sticks and stones may break my bones, but it's Toyota that's gonna make you in a world of hurt!

Fortunately, as I am in Illinois, I'll wine and dine her with Chicago as well as Milwaukee, both respectable midwestern cities, and no one (outside of the US, except perhaps in Germany) has ever heard of Milwaukee, so there are no insane expectations.

The problem with Detroit is that people have had expectations, and still do. People visiting Japan almost never include Nagoya on their itinerary: the world has enough sprawling industrial/commercial cities as it is, and why visit every one of them? Yet, most have not had the Supremes, and techno, and Eminem, and all kinds of sports victories. Detroit promises, but no longer delivers. When people see how much the difference is, they become unhappy and bash it. Meanwhile, expectations of Liverpool or other northern British cities were so extremely low, that when many artists/musicians came forth, people thought they needed to rethink what they 'knew.'

I suppose the easy response here is the the United States no longer cares about manufacturing, so Detroit's decline from 'major city' status is inevitable, and that Nagoya has found a major niche and/or support by Japanese government policy. Japanese hear the names of many American cities and believe that there is a lot of crime, but they don't expect to see what look like bombed-out buildings in a major city center.

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

One has to hope that an "Ed Rendell" will come around for Detroit - someone who honestly cares about the city and will make the tough decisions for Detroit's long-term future instead of sacrificing it to meet people's short-term felt needs. I'm not sure this will happen until more people who sincerely care about the city's future move in. Even then, it might take something like the Philadelphia MOVE bombing to mobilize people for change.

At this point, prospects are dim. However, your dream is shared. Yet, I have no irrational expectations. But, if would be so nice if it did occur. However, I am not holding my breath. Yet one day, there may be comeback! But don't bet on it.

... the famous Michigan bipolar disorder: if you don't like the attitude, wait 5 minutes and the clouds will return! oh wait, dissipated. ahhhhhhhh! they're back! Thank God for clip-on/clip-off sunglasses.

[M TYPE X]

Really looking up here ... Porsche says NAIAS wastes their time:
Porsche - AutoWeek
That's pretty bad. But if the Comerica HQ sellout to Dallas didn't bother you much, this won't move you either.

Maybe they'll still hit the Cleveland show ... or maybe not.
I missed the Chicago, Cleveland, and Detroit shows this year due to a rough schedule and bad weather.
No auto shows, no skiing ... one shouldn't live in the Midwest to watch corn grow. sigh.

[JenM]

Here's what I've decided after reading all 6 pages of this post: Life is what you make it. Now, I may come off as a hypocrite saying that, since I have been known to spread a bit of gloom and doom myself . But I realize that it's rough all over, not just Michigan. I know in my personal situation, my family would be screwed no matter where we lived. I really do love Michigan. Truly, I do. A year ago, I was ready to high tail it outta here to find my utopia. Now I know that for me, this is the perfect place. I just have to stick it out for a few more years until I get my degree and I will be golden.

I mean, what better place to raise a family than here? And yes the education here is great. My oldest (who is 6) walked out of Kindergarten this year knowing not only how to spell and write properly, but she can also read at a second grade level, knows how to add and subtract, and can spell very well without help from me or my husband! That to me is a great achievement!

[magellan]

Originally Posted by JenM

Here's what I've decided after reading all 6 pages of this post: Life is what you make it. Now, I may come off as a hypocrite saying that, since I have been known to spread a bit of gloom and doom myself . But I realize that it's rough all over, not just Michigan. I know in my personal situation, my family would be screwed no matter where we lived. I really do love Michigan. Truly, I do. A year ago, I was ready to high tail it outta here to find my utopia. Now I know that for me, this is the perfect place. I just have to stick it out for a few more years until I get my degree and I will be golden.

I mean, what better place to raise a family than here? And yes the education here is great. My oldest (who is 6) walked out of Kindergarten this year knowing not only how to spell and write properly, but she can also read at a second grade level, knows how to add and subtract, and can spell very well without help from me or my husband! That to me is a great achievement!

Thank you JenM! We too contemplated moving South a little over a year ago, because the industry I worked in was struggling. It caused a lot of angst and depression for both me and my wife, because all of our family is here in Michigan and we both grew up here. The anxiety of possibly moving was starting to affect our three kids, who were constantly fighting all the time.

We finally decided it was not worth it to move, so my wife took on more hours at work, I took on less and started doing some consulting and working from home. We make less money now, but cut way back on expenses and we are extremely happy with our decision. We were chasing the Jones' (metaphorically speaking), even as they were moving to North Carolina or somewhere else. It was making us miserable. Now we get to stay in the State we love, near family, and with neighbors we've grown to be friends with and would do anything for us. We've learned again to enjoy the here and now, and not constantly obsessing over where we will be in five years.

BTW: We too have a kindergartner who just finished school and is doing fantastic. Her math is at the 2nd grade level. Our other daughter finished 1st grade and is reading well above 2nd grade level. And they both got rave reviews from their teachers for being such great students. Life is good. Things work out, they always do.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by JenM

Here's what I've decided after reading all 6 pages of this post: Life is what you make it.

This sums it all up: hear hear!

[antoncooper]

So by the life is what you make it I guess those who lived through the great depression could have made quite a little home away from home when they were thrown out of their farms?
I know that is a bit over the top. but to make a point, when the jobs are gone and an area is dead, you cant make silk purse out of sow's ear.
That is a false statment like a realtor saying "they are not making any more land" true, but swamp land is still swamp land.
The statement that "things cant get any worse" was said by a certian people in appx, 1939, I think that if you have the cahoonas to ask them did they get better in 1944 the answer you received would have been much different.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by antoncooper

So by the life is what you make it I guess those who lived through the great depression could have made quite a little home away from home when they were thrown out of their farms?
I know that is a bit over the top. but to make a point, when the jobs are gone and an area is dead, you cant make silk purse out of sow's ear.
That is a false statment like a realtor saying "they are not making any more land" true, but swamp land is still swamp land.
I say that people who move and relocate for work are the smart ones, those who sit back and say that things will get better are the dumb ones. The statement that "things cant get any worse" was said by a certian people in appx, 1939, I think that if you have the cahoonas to ask them did they get better in 1944 the answer you received would have been much different.

Again, comparing Michigan's situation to millions of jews being slaughtered in Germany is disgusting and insulting to those millions of jews and their families and descendants.

I wish people would stop calling other people on this forum "dumb". Aren't there rules against that here?

[tomjones]

I think some have a frustration with those who will not see what is going on around them, I understand that people want to be optomistic, but you can take that here as many have to be unrealistic, Things in michigan are not good and in fact are the worst in the nation.
There is in fact nothing on the slate taht can turn the state around.
Property is tanking across the state. The optos say that is the case across the nation, ture but put it in prospective, other states dropped from 10% growth to 5% growth and dont know how to handle it, take pheonex for example, they would put their homes on the market for a high price and then take bidds, and it would aways go for much more, now the homes sit on the market for a few weeks and get asking prices, but michigan on the other hand, no one will touch property here unless you can pick up a home for 40% under value. and that is not a guarntee that you will not loose $ in the next few years.
Many here who say they have jobs and things are fine remind me of that movie Roger and me, the first movie Micheal moore did, about Roger smith the then pres. of GM, He was arrogant and stupid, and rand gm in the ground.
Any way there was a spoksman for gm that argued about how great things were for gm and that the people who were getting layed off were finding other work and things were looking up [things did not even start to look up for several years till gas dropped to 90 cents a gallon and the us started to buy the suv crap the big three sold.] He was layed off him self before the movie finished, I always wonderd how he felt about "things looking up" when he got his pink slip?

[jeffncandace]

Okay. This thread is called "Michigan looking up!" If you don't think it is, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you need to find a diplomatic way of saying so, and calling anyone who is trying to make it here "dumb" is less than diplomatic, and borders on breaking the forum rules. I have deleted that statement from the original post, having deemed it an insult.

I don't think anyone has said that Michigan is doing fabulous economically. We all live here, we all read the papers and watch the news. It's would be obvious to the blind and deaf that Michigan has fallen on hard times, to say the least. But it's simply ignorant to state that "people who move and relocate for work are the smart ones, those who sit back and say that things will get better are the dumb ones." That is simply not true. According to your logic, all 10 million Michiganders should pack up and move. Perhaps we could turn the state into a gigantic national park? Please.

Things will, sooner or later, get better here. They may, and probably will, get worse before it gets better-but it WILL get better. Want to know why I know this? Because of a 5 letter word-GREED. Someone's loss will be someone else's gain. Period.

It was also stated that property is "tanking across the state". It certainly is not doing well, but your statement lumps all areas of the state together. I happen to know that the western half of the state is doing pretty good, at least in comparison to other areas, especially in the Grand Rapids area where my family lives. And I know that where I live, Royal Oak, is also still doing well. If you don't believe me, then ask my neighbor, who just sold after 3 months on the market and yes, she is making money on the deal! Wow! (Let me guess: she's the 1 and only person in Michigan to have done so).

It sounds from your posts that you don't even WANT Michigan to turn around and do well!

Take your doom and gloom and get out of the state you hate so much. The rest of us "dummies" will be just fine.

[JenM]

So by the life is what you make it I guess those who lived through the great depression could have made quite a little home away from home when they were thrown out of their farms?
I know that is a bit over the top. but to make a point, when the jobs are gone and an area is dead, you cant make silk purse out of sow's ear.

Ya know, my situation is pretty bad. And when I say that it would be that way in any state, this is very true. My husband and I don't have the skills to find decent jobs. That's why we are both in school. So yes in two years we will both have good jobs in the medical field, which isn't hurting.

And yes life is what you make it. I'm not gonna sit here and whine and complain, "Oh poor me, I don't have a house, or nice cars or even food in my fridge." Boohoo! I am two days away from being evicted and living in my car with my 3 kids. But yes I can still say life is what you make it. If I made better decisions in the first place, I would have never been in the current situation I am in regardless of the condition of the state of Michigan.

I know in 2 years life will be better!