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Old 02-05-2016, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, MI
302 posts, read 764,705 times
Reputation: 464

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Guy View Post
By the way, you would think that pretty much EVERY American could appreciate a city like Sault Ste. Marie, if for no other reason than its historical significance. I mean, it's the 2nd oldest city in ALL of America, and only behind St. Augustine, Florida by like 2 years. I'm relying solely on memory here, but I believe St. Augustine was founded in 1666 and The Soo was founded in 1668. Don't hold me to that, but I do know for certain that the Soo only trails St. Augustine in age.
This is widely believed in Sault Ste. Marie and elsewhere, but it's actually not close to true. Sault Ste. Marie is the oldest town in Michigan, and one of the oldest in the Midwest, but there are a bunch of towns in the US that are older.

1565 Saint Augustine, FL
1607 Santa Fe, NM
1610 Hampton, VA
1613 Newport News, VA
1614 Albany, NY
1620 Plymouth, MA
1623 Dover, NH
1623 Portsmouth, NH
1623 Gloucester, MA
1624 Burlington, NJ
1624 Chelsea, MA
1625 New York, NY (as New Amsterdam)
1625 Quincy, MA
1626 Salem, MA
1629 Lynn, MA
1629 Charlestown,MA
1630 Berwick, ME
1630 Jersey City, NJ (as Pavonia)
1630 Medrod, MA
1630 Boston, MA
1631 Lewes, DE
1631 Cambridge, MA
1632 Williamsburg, VA
1633 Windsor, CT
1634 Green Bay, WI
1635 Concord, MA
1635 Newbury, MA
1636 Springfield, MA
1636 Providence, RI
1637 Hartford, CT
1637 Taunton, MA
1637 Sandwich, MA
1638 Rowley, MA
1638 Exeer, NH
1638 Swedesboro, NJ
1638 New Haven, CT
1638 Wilington, DE
1639 St. Marks, FL
1639 Stratford, CT
1639 Newport, RI
1639 Sudbury, MA
1640 Woburn, MA
1641 Haverhill, MA
1642 Lexington, MA
1643 Guilford, CT
1643 Rohoboth, MA
1644 Longmeadow, MA
1645 Flushing, NY (as Vlissingen)
1646 Andover, MA
1646 New London, CT
1647 Kittery, ME
1649 Annapolis, MD
1650 Kingston, NY
1651 Medfield, MA
1651 New Castle, DE
1653 Lancaster, MA
1654 Pelham, NY
1655 Chelmsford, MA
1655 Groton, MA
1655 Billerica, MA
1659 Hadley, MA
1660 Rye, NY
1661 Schenectady, NY
1666 Newark, NJ
1667 Mendon, MA
1668 Amesbury, MA
1668 Sault Ste. Marie, MI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._of_foundation
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Old 02-06-2016, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Loving life in YooperLand! U.P. of Mi.
47 posts, read 69,585 times
Reputation: 44
Wow. I guess it's true what they say...you really DO learn something new every day. Thank you for clarifying. I have always believed what I read about Sault Ste. Marie being the second oldest city in America. Glad I've never gone around posting about it (until THIS thread lol).


At any rate, it's still an extremely important city (both in American history, AND as far as the current Locks system and whatnot), and it deserves far more respect than skolls has shown it. I've never been there myself. But I certainly intend on visiting in the near future. I've always been fascinated by the Locks. At the risk of making myself look like an idiot again (wouldn't be the first time), I believe they actually run more tonnage through the Soo than the Panama and Suez Canals COMBINED. For a FACT I have read that. Whether it's true or not, I have no clue. It's not even debatable, though, as to just how important the Locks are to the Michigan (as well as American, and even international) commerce.


Not to even mention the fact that there are many hardworking American men and women that do their level best to survive in one of America's harshest climates. That alone is reason enough to earn my respect. The U.P. (in general) is one of America's last frontiers. Yes, I realize it is a populated state, but with only 2% of the population and nearly 1/3 the land mass of lower Mi., it's not exactly as if the population is booming up there. There's far more deer (and other wildlife) than people in the entire region.


Again, Sault Ste. Marie, Mi. deserves far more respect than skolls has shown the city and the residents. Besides, he's in the armpit of the Midwest (Detroit). It's not as if he has any room to talk about another city or town.
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Old 02-06-2016, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Loving life in YooperLand! U.P. of Mi.
47 posts, read 69,585 times
Reputation: 44
By the way, I just realized your current location...guess I really don't have to sell you very much on the Soo. Enjoy being in God's country. We can't wait to be up there in the U.P. ourselves.
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Old 02-07-2016, 10:43 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,733 posts, read 15,879,161 times
Reputation: 2869
Old posts never die ! Problem is, if this is a problem , during the last 6 years chances are many have moved there, some moved out, some feel stuck , some just don't care, and a few won't come back.

The best way to get the feel for what the Soo is ( little changes in the North ) is to actually live and visit all the places in the northern Troll Land, and all the places in the 99 per cent of what's left .......in the UP........Some of us have seen it......This guy ( me ) looks at the Soo as the focal point of what's at the end of I-75. In general, it's the Locks, gateway to Lake Superior and vital to the wellness of the balance of the upper Midwest, the Northern Tier so too speak....... As a rule you go thru The Soo on your way to a much larger City across the way, the Canadian side. Combine the area and you will find a lot to do and see, most in Canada. Nothing wrong with that ether, however, I know people who were born in the Soo, almost , and never go or talk about the big city across the border........they should.
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Old 02-07-2016, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, MI
302 posts, read 764,705 times
Reputation: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Guy View Post


Again, Sault Ste. Marie, Mi. deserves far more respect than skolls has shown the city and the residents. Besides, he's in the armpit of the Midwest (Detroit). It's not as if he has any room to talk about another city or town.
I certainly wouldn't try to defend Sault Ste. Marie by insulting Detroit, which is a city that itself is immensely important to Michigan and US history. Detroit has gone through a lot of hard times in the past 50 years, but there are a lot of interesting developments going on there right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
....... As a rule you go thru The Soo on your way to a much larger City across the way, the Canadian side. Combine the area and you will find a lot to do and see, most in Canada. Nothing wrong with that ether, however, I know people who were born in the Soo, almost , and never go or talk about the big city across the border........they should.
I've gone over to Sault Ontario a few times in the past year to go to the movies (they have a really nice movie theater, also the one on this side closed down so they can build a Meijer on that location...hopefully we will get a new theater soon!) but I don't go over there weekly or anything, or think about it all that much. I feel like the International Border makes it feel much further away than it actually is.
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:40 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,733 posts, read 15,879,161 times
Reputation: 2869
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManoftheNorth View Post
I certainly wouldn't try to defend Sault Ste. Marie by insulting Detroit, which is a city that itself is immensely important to Michigan and US history. Detroit has gone through a lot of hard times in the past 50 years, but there are a lot of interesting developments going on there right now.


I've gone over to Sault Ontario a few times in the past year to go to the movies (they have a really nice movie theater, also the one on this side closed down so they can build a Meijer on that location...hopefully we will get a new theater soon!) but I don't go over there weekly or anything, or think about it all that much. I feel like the International Border makes it feel much further away than it actually is.
You are a good example of my statement.......I live in Marquette but when in your area have done about everything on Canadian side, let's see, went to a Lightfoot Concert, Starbucks , Bush Plane Museum ( great place , best I have seen ), just a few this past year or so. I see it as silly, sister cities, so close yet so far ? Anytime you have a city 5 times larger , seem only natural for shopping. I used to hear about a bus or trolley that ran across the border, established for the party crowd who visited the bars in Ontario and needed a safe way home........
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:52 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,733 posts, read 15,879,161 times
Reputation: 2869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Guy View Post
Wow. I guess it's true what they say...you really DO learn something new every day. Thank you for clarifying. I have always believed what I read about Sault Ste. Marie being the second oldest city in America. Glad I've never gone around posting about it (until THIS thread lol).


At any rate, it's still an extremely important city (both in American history, AND as far as the current Locks system and whatnot), and it deserves far more respect than skolls has shown it. I've never been there myself. But I certainly intend on visiting in the near future. I've always been fascinated by the Locks. At the risk of making myself look like an idiot again (wouldn't be the first time), I believe they actually run more tonnage through the Soo than the Panama and Suez Canals COMBINED. For a FACT I have read that. Whether it's true or not, I have no clue. It's not even debatable, though, as to just how important the Locks are to the Michigan (as well as American, and even international) commerce.


Not to even mention the fact that there are many hardworking American men and women that do their level best to survive in one of America's harshest climates. That alone is reason enough to earn my respect. The U.P. (in general) is one of America's last frontiers. Yes, I realize it is a populated state, but with only 2% of the population and nearly 1/3 the land mass of lower Mi., it's not exactly as if the population is booming up there. There's far more deer (and other wildlife) than people in the entire region.


Again, Sault Ste. Marie, Mi. deserves far more respect than skolls has shown the city and the residents. Besides, he's in the armpit of the Midwest (Detroit). It's not as if he has any room to talk about another city or town.
I have noticed the far eastern part of the UP have a strong connection with Lower Mi., especially the Detroit area. Lots of " summer Island dwellers" in the area too. Ventureing west in the Northern Tier has been considered way too far for any good reason. ( have been told that several times ). Personally being from Marquette, we seem to be more " connected" with Chicago than Detroit.....makes good sense.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, MI
302 posts, read 764,705 times
Reputation: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
You are a good example of my statement.......I live in Marquette but when in your area have done about everything on Canadian side, let's see, went to a Lightfoot Concert, Starbucks , Bush Plane Museum ( great place , best I have seen ), just a few this past year or so. I see it as silly, sister cities, so close yet so far ? Anytime you have a city 5 times larger , seem only natural for shopping. I used to hear about a bus or trolley that ran across the border, established for the party crowd who visited the bars in Ontario and needed a safe way home........
No doubt that Sault Ontario has better shopping than Sault Michigan, but it seems pretty poor in comparison to Traverse City or Kalamazoo, not much in their mall interests me aside from the movie theater. I feel like the availability offered by Amazon takes a lot of the incentive out of crossing the border, you could try to go over to Ontario and maybe get stuck on the bridge for over an hour, or you could visit Wal-Mart or order from Amazon.
I used to work retail (Kmart, Walgreens) in Sault Michigan, and a great deal of the customers were Canadian, and the parking lot at the Super Wal-Mart in Sault Michigan is usually over half Canadian plates, so I'm not sure if all the Canadians in Sault Ontario would agree that the shopping in Sault Michigan is all that terrible.
I don't have any use for Starbucks, not being a coffee drinker, and as for concerts and events, there are a lot of those at the Kewadin Casino in Sault Michigan.

There is a little bridge bus that takes people from Downtown Sault Michigan and LSSU to the mall in Canada, but it only runs until about 5 PM, not at all on Sundays and it's often late or misses stops because of bad traffic on the bridge. Even if it did run all night, I don't know that I'd go very often to visit the bars in Ontario... we have plenty of those on this side of the river.

There are a few stores and restaurants on that side that interest me, but like I said, crossing the border isn't a weekly or even monthly thing for me. The Uncertainty over bridge traffic and the hassle of crossing an International Border just make Sault Ontario feel much further away, almost as far as Petoskey and Traverse City, and those are much more attractive places to visit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
I have noticed the far eastern part of the UP have a strong connection with Lower Mi., especially the Detroit area. Lots of " summer Island dwellers" in the area too. Ventureing west in the Northern Tier has been considered way too far for any good reason. ( have been told that several times ). Personally being from Marquette, we seem to be more " connected" with Chicago than Detroit.....makes good sense.
This is pretty true, in a given year I'd say I'm much more likely to visit Petoskey, Traverse City, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo and especially Metro Detroit than Marquette, and I'm just as likely to visit lower Michigan as I am to go to Sault Ontario.
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:03 PM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,733 posts, read 15,879,161 times
Reputation: 2869
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManoftheNorth View Post
No doubt that Sault Ontario has better shopping than Sault Michigan, but it seems pretty poor in comparison to Traverse City or Kalamazoo, not much in their mall interests me aside from the movie theater. I feel like the availability offered by Amazon takes a lot of the incentive out of crossing the border, you could try to go over to Ontario and maybe get stuck on the bridge for over an hour, or you could visit Wal-Mart or order from Amazon.
I used to work retail (Kmart, Walgreens) in Sault Michigan, and a great deal of the customers were Canadian, and the parking lot at the Super Wal-Mart in Sault Michigan is usually over half Canadian plates, so I'm not sure if all the Canadians in Sault Ontario would agree that the shopping in Sault Michigan is all that terrible.
I don't have any use for Starbucks, not being a coffee drinker, and as for concerts and events, there are a lot of those at the Kewadin Casino in Sault Michigan.

There is a little bridge bus that takes people from Downtown Sault Michigan and LSSU to the mall in Canada, but it only runs until about 5 PM, not at all on Sundays and it's often late or misses stops because of bad traffic on the bridge. Even if it did run all night, I don't know that I'd go very often to visit the bars in Ontario... we have plenty of those on this side of the river.

There are a few stores and restaurants on that side that interest me, but like I said, crossing the border isn't a weekly or even monthly thing for me. The Uncertainty over bridge traffic and the hassle of crossing an International Border just make Sault Ontario feel much further away, almost as far as Petoskey and Traverse City, and those are much more attractive places to visit.



This is pretty true, in a given year I'd say I'm much more likely to visit Petoskey, Traverse City, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo and especially Metro Detroit than Marquette, and I'm just as likely to visit lower Michigan as I am to go to Sault Ontario.
Your perspective proves the point that it DOES make a difference where you live, or have lived. Not a lot different than which ball team you favor.

I do know the bridge can be a problem, traffic from Ca. can be quite heavy, especially when the exchange rate I'd favorable. Then there is the increased security since 911......I agree with your statement , except , The comparing TC with the Soo Canada. TC has a bad traffic problem, one road in one road out , a lot like the Soo,. The other thing is TC is Smaller than Marquette, not a lot to offer from what I have seen. Sault Ca.is a blue collar town, heavy dirty industry, like apples and oranges but even that offers many things you can not get elsewhere. Kzoo ? Nice small city.....way too far away, including GR which has way too much crime to be enjoyable........just my thoughts, I have lived in all these places down state including Detroit.
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, MI
302 posts, read 764,705 times
Reputation: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
I agree with your statement , except , The comparing TC with the Soo Canada. TC has a bad traffic problem, one road in one road out , a lot like the Soo,. The other thing is TC is Smaller than Marquette,
It's really not, if you are comparing any metric aside from city limits population. Traverse City has a tiny city limit of only 8.33 sq mi, compared to 11.39 sq mi for Marquette and a massive 86.20 sq mi for Sault Ontario, which includes a lot of rural land (Ontario is a lot more generous in allowing their cities to expand in land area compared to Michigan, SSM Ontario would be the second biggest city by land area in the State if it were a Michigan city). Compare the Micropolitan areas of Traverse City and Marquette, and things look pretty different, with TC at 143,372 people and Marquette only 67,077. Metropolitan areas are organized differently in Canada than the United States, but Sault Ontario is only at 79,800 if you consider it's metro region (there isn't much just outside of Sault Ontario).
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