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Old 08-30-2010, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Don't be a cry baby!
1,310 posts, read 1,144,870 times
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U.S. Armed Forces Oath of Enlistment

Quote:
Federal law requires everyone who enlists or re-enlists in the Armed Forces of the United States to take the enlistment oath.

Is there a priority within the oath?

What if the enemy was domestic and defending the Constitution ment disobeying direct orders of the President or State Govenor? (Not that they would both be enemies of "The State" at the same time.)

Any enlisted (or X enlisted folks) folks care to take this on. Please, I don't need any civilian opinions.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:33 PM
 
Location: PA
563 posts, read 769,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCincorrect View Post
U.S. Armed Forces Oath of Enlistment




Is there a priority within the oath?

What if the enemy was domestic and defending the Constitution ment disobeying direct orders of the President or State Govenor? (Not that they would both be enemies of "The State" at the same time.)

Any enlisted (or X enlisted folks) folks care to take this on. Please, I don't need any civilian opinions.
This is a cut and paste of the oath. I've said it several times. US Army 12 years as a 19D Scout - 2nd ID in Korea, 3rd Cav in Iraq, plus a few other places, left as an E6.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

My personal idea of the priority, and I'm obviously not an attorney, is that you support and defend the Constitution first. The officers above you should be doing the same, in fact, leading by example. If they are not, then you must make a personal decision based on the FACTS at that time. You'd better know well the UCMJ before doing anything rash.
For instance, think of the movie "The Rock", with Nicolas Cage. They were on domestic soil, breaking the UCMJ, and certainly going against the Constitution. If you were in that type of scenario - as an enlisted, I'd say walk away.
But real life is not so easy. You will have close friends that will or wont agree. There are so many variables to consider. In the end, you have to do what is right, and make sure you are following the law. And be a Constitutional scholar if you are giving that as your reason for not following orders. Otherwise, you may just end up facing a firing squad.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
2,633 posts, read 4,391,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCincorrect View Post
U.S. Armed Forces Oath of Enlistment




Is there a priority within the oath?

What if the enemy was domestic and defending the Constitution ment disobeying direct orders of the President or State Govenor? (Not that they would both be enemies of "The State" at the same time.)

Any enlisted (or X enlisted folks) folks care to take this on. Please, I don't need any civilian opinions.
Maybe you're asking for a research project or are really interested.

I sense there is a possibility you may be referring to your situation now...and if you are, I really, really strongly advise you to think twice.

I agree the Constitution takes priority, period.

That being said, the oath is to "obey the orders of the President of the United States" and not to "obey the orders of the President of the United States if he happens to hold the same political beliefs I do."
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:19 PM
 
3,651 posts, read 8,111,745 times
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The way the oath is worded, defending the Constitution and obeying the President is not an either/or deal, and the odds of being presented with such a situation are ridiculously small. Generally speaking, the President should get the benefit of the doubt, but if you feel it's clear he's way out of line, it's time to engage brain and make a judgment call. ie there is no pat answer.

I must say I find it odd that you don't consider officer or civilian opinions to "count," but whatever -
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,878,727 times
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As an Enlisted or Officer you swear an oath. Unless you are a highly educated constitutional lawyer you really don't have the knowledge to support disobeying the President of the United States. If his policies run counter to your beliefs you have a few options.
1. Serve whatever time remains on your enlistment then get out.
2. Go AWOL and suffer the consequences.
3. Disobey your orders and suffer the consequences.
Moderator cut: This forum is not to be used for political arguments. Use Politics and Other Controversies forum instead.

Last edited by Poncho_NM; 08-31-2010 at 07:13 AM..
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,719 posts, read 47,472,880 times
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Different people view their oath differently.

I knew men who had a fit when ordered to serve under European officers, or to wear a UN uniform.
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:52 PM
 
30,736 posts, read 16,968,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderingWanderer View Post
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;
Nuff said....questioned answered....
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