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Men and women in same rooms? Instead of separating them by sex. The way I see it is if they can ask a straight man to share a room with a gay man or 2 gay men to room together they might as well as a man and a woman to bunk in same room. What is the difference ?
A co-worker and I were discussing this one day. I doubt it will ever happen. I couldn't see the military allowing opposite sex couples to share living quarters or even showering facilities. I also don't believe they'll have reserved quarters and such for homos to be paired up with anyone but someone of same sex regardless of their sexual preference. Although in a way I think if they are going to let homos openly serve in the military and sleep and shower with straight people, they may as well allow opposite sex quarters.
Gay men have been sharing rooms with straight men since forever. You just don't know who is gay. Straight men like to pretend they are like 4 year olds playing "peek-a-boo"...you know, how the baby covers his/her face and thinks no one can see them. Stop pretending that because you can't see the gays that they are not there.
There have been more than 12,000 gays discharged since 1993. Many after ten or more years of service. People were bunking and showering with them in basic training... they just pretended they weren't.
Just because you like to pretend something doesn't exist, doesn't mean it doesn't.
Everyone has survived bunking with gays since the beginning of the military. Allowing the gays to stop hiding doesn't suddenly mean you have to bunk with them. You already are.
And let's be real. I only bunked with someone my first year in the military. Never again after that. It's not like you live your whole military career in shared bunks.
What really is the difference? Do you think the gay men and women who have been hiding their sexuality have magically been housed separately? I guarantee there was a least one gay person in your basic training dorms. Maybe even your best friend. You just didn't know. That way, your bigotted self wouldn't have to feel uncomfortable.
The answer is no, even though the military can let in sexual offenders with character waivers, it hates sexual assaults and harassment. The overwhelming majority are men doing it to women, not women to men, women to women or men to men.
Great post, DMarie123! I know I served with gays. I found them to be just as good on the job as straight Airmen were. I approach the issue from the point of we should be recruiting (and retaining) the best Americans we possibly can. I believe military regulations will take care of the behavior problems that some will THINK they'll encounter...
On a different note, I realize situations such as basic and technical training, combat operations and even naval ships are the exception, but I believe that the miltary should've LONG AGO provided private housing for every military member, regardless of marital status. I realize the budget could not stand a rapid conversion to that goal but we should be moving in that direction as fast as prudently possible.
Maybe I should start a thread about married- vs. single-rate BAQ...
Really that is messed up to say. I am not bigoted. I have roomed with an openly gay male before, By choice!!!11!!! To say someone is bigoted because they have an opinion that doesn't match yours is just ignorant.
A man or woman sharing a room with a homosexual that they do not know is a homosexual is different then sharing one with an open homosexual.
For many men and women if sharing a room with a homosexual would be similar to sharing with a member of the same sex.
Honestly what is the difference, between 2 gay men sharing a room or 1 straight man and 1 straight woman? Small difference if it is between a straight and a gay person of the same sex. Either way it is a comfort and privacy issue.
I myself have no problem bunking with a man or woman regardless of their sexual preference. Not everyone is the same as me. There is 2 sides to a coin.
If an openly gay man/woman can shower with a group of other men/women why not just throw all sexes in their together. Do gay people have more self control then straight people when it comes to seeing nude people of the gender that turns them on ? I know how I would react to showering with 20-30 women
P.S again to point out the ignorance in assuming I am bigoted I never claimed to be against gays in the military, nor am I against it. Unless they can work out a housing issue that is fair to everyone (straight and gay alike) I am against repealing DADT.
Really that is messed up to say. I am not bigoted. I have roomed with an openly gay male before, By choice!!!11!!! To say someone is bigoted because they have an opinion that doesn't match yours is just ignorant.
Jerry- I'm sorry if I offended you. I meant "your bigoted self" in the general sense.... I was talking about people in general. Perhaps I didn't use correct grammar- but I didn't meant to direct it at specifically you.
In my opinion- the people that argue against DADT do it because they are slightly bigoted. The actual definition, from dictionary.com, of bigot is "a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. A person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race"
The arguments that I’m continually hearing, in general, are that sharing living quarters or showers with open gays would make the straight people uncomfortable, or because they find it offensive because they don’t agree with the lifestyle.
Again Jerry- I don’t mean you specifically… perhaps you love gays and fully support them, as long as they are not in the military.
You say,
Quote:
A man or woman sharing a room with a homosexual that they do not know is a homosexual is different then sharing one with an open homosexual.
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But to me, the only difference is how the straight person feels. There is nothing different about the gay person, just that the straight person no longer can pretend that everyone in the shower is straight. That is what that argument boils down to. It changes nothing, except giving the straight person a reason to feel uncomfortable, because of the straight person's bigotry- in my opinion. They only have enough tolerance and support for gays to go far enough to last when gays are pretending to be straight. As soon as a gay person isn't hiding it, those particular straight people become "intolerant" the very definition of bigotry.
I'm sorry if it is too harsh of a word. Perhaps I'm not applying it correctly here, but to me it does seem like it fits the actual definition of the word.
Does everyone not realize these were the same arguments against racial integration? "Why should I bunk with a black person? That makes me uncomfortable? Why should I share a water fountain, I'm not OK with that?"
Quote:
If an openly gay man/woman can shower with a group of other men/women why not just throw all sexes in their together. Do gay people have more self control then straight people when it comes to seeing nude people of the gender that turns them on ? I know how I would react to showering with 20-30 women
If the showering were such a problem, then why haven't we had problems with the at least 12,000 gays that have showered with straight people? I have yet to hear a story about any of the 12,000 gays that we know where kicked out of the military after making it through basic training forcing themselves on another member of the same sex in the shower. I've never even heard a story about a male getting an errection in a basic training shower...and thousands of gays have showered in basic training. Literally thousands.
I'm trying to see the basis for your argument. Can you cite any actual incidences where a gay person in a shower in basic training has caused an issue? Even one single incident?
I'm pretty sure if the men in the shower were gawking at each other, someone would get punched in the face. Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they can't control where they look. I'm pretty sure if they became aroused in the shower they would be mortified, embarrassed, and probably beat up.
Has anyone on this forum ever been in an open shower and noticed another male get turned on? Because chances are you showered with gays who were able to control themselves?
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Unless they can work out a housing issue that is fair to everyone (straight and gay alike) I am against repealing DADT
So it is more important that housing be fair to those straight people who choose to be uncomfortable with gays then it is for gays to have equal rights and be able to serve without living a lie? This is exactly my point. People want to make gays hide so that a few straight people aren't unfairly made to feel uncomfortable. They are already sharing housing and showering facilities, but straight people are allowed to put their blinders up and pretend it doesn't happen. Making straight people face the truth is just too cruel so we should just take away the rights of the gay people.
I can not wrap my head around why this is correct.
"Excuse me, I need you to hide who you are because someone here might get uncomfortable. You will lose your job if you get caught hugging your boyfriend off base, out of uniform, and off duty... because heaven forbid that you make a straight man feel uncomfortable... Oh, I'm sorry, what did you say? That you think you should have the right to feel comfortable with your own sexuality without fear of losing your job? Sorry... that might make a straight man feel like life is unfair because he had to shower with you for 8 weeks in basic training. What's that? But your career is 30 years? I know, but we can't make that straight man uncomfortable in basic training my dear, that would be way too unfair to him"
Who cares about women, gay men, etc serving? As long as they have their trigger finger, their war face, and are willing to fight and die if necessary for their country then that is all I need to know. I could care less if they are gay or a woman.
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