Meeting The Air Force recruiter next week (Navy, boot camp, reserve)

[blackie123]

My daughter is a senior in High School and graduating early this December. She has already decided to join the Air Force, has chosen the areas she is interested in, and has her first appointment next Tuesday with the recruiter. She is planning to go into Still Photography or Public Affairs. When she spoke to him at school he was totally unprepared for her questions because as he put it "everyone wants to fly planes". She has had 3 semesters of ROTC and there is no way we can pay for college before she goes. Can anyone give us advice on what to ask or what kind of paperwork we should take? Delayed enlistment has been brought up as well - any comments? Thanks.

[dmarie123]

Blackie-
Please ask about minimum jobs that MEPS requires. Each MEPS is different. Ours requires that applicants list 7 jobs and an aptitude area. An aptitude area means that recruits will know they are going into mechanics, admin, general jobs, or electric. If they don't get 1 of their 7 jobs, they will leave for basic training not even knowing what job they have.

She will need ID, and Social Security card to take the ASVAB. She'll need her birth certificate to take the physical. You can google "DD FORM 2807" and see the 75 medical questions she'll be ask...before the medical physical, you'll need to take copies of medical records for every single "yes" answer except glasses and braces.

There are awesome videos on youtube. If you type in "MEPS Processing" she can watch some official videos of what to expect for the ASVAB/Physical. There are also some great videos about basic training. I'd recommend watching them so you guys can have some questions triggered by seeing a little of what to expect.

Good luck!
Please understand that applicants don't have the power they used to have with the Air Force. Many recruiters would turn your daughter away because she is concerned about jobs, and doesn't have the attitude of "I want to be in the Air Force, I will do any job to be in the Air Force, the only thing that matter is being in the Air Force."

Remember that recruiters don't have to put anyone in. It's a job interview, like any other job. If I have 15 applicants in a month, I might only be able to process 3... I choose who I process. I don't process the picky applicants. All of the recruiters I know are that way. Yours might be different, but be prepared for that.

Ask about the job selection process. Also ask about the wait time so that you can make plans. 100% for sure, she will not be leaving until February or later. Some recruiting areas have longer waits, but at least February, so she'll need to start making plans for after she graduates and before she leaves for boot camp.

[joey2000]

Originally Posted by blackie123

When she spoke to him at school he was totally unprepared for her questions because as he put it "everyone wants to fly planes".

He sounds like an idiot. Sadly, this is not so rare among recruiters, frankly. I would try to find another recruiter in your area (or nearby areas) immediately.

Can anyone give us advice on what to ask or what kind of paperwork we should take?

? None is required to simply talk to a recruiter; only when you're ready to firm up all the details and sign on the dotted line.

Delayed enlistment has been brought up as well - any comments? Thanks.

Well worth a look and consideration if the situation allows, so she can get the job slot she wants.

Originally Posted by dmarie123

Blackie-
Please ask about minimum jobs that MEPS requires. Each MEPS is different. Ours requires that applicants list 7 jobs and an aptitude area.

No offense but I question this. USAF has USAF standards/regs on how this is supposed to go; MEPS can't just make up their own rules. I would contact the USAF HQ/recruiter center and confirm though.

An aptitude area means that recruits will know they are going into mechanics, admin, general jobs, or electric. If they don't get 1 of their 7 jobs, they will leave for basic training not even knowing what job they have.

...which is why a recruit should have a guaranteed job before they go. This should be able to be known and part of the contract.

Please understand that applicants don't have the power they used to have with the Air Force. Many recruiters would turn your daughter away because she is concerned about jobs,

You can't be serious. Any recruiter who cops that kind of attitude should also be immediately discarded, frankly, and even reported to their superiors.

"I want to be in the Air Force, I will do any job to be in the Air Force, the only thing that matter is being in the Air Force."

I'm sorry, but only a complete idiot would have this naive attitude as it could end up causing you to have an inspiring career as a fast food "chef" or sitting behind a counter checking in/out gas masks all day. hoooo-ah.

Remember that recruiters don't have to put anyone in. It's a job interview, like any other job. If I have 15 applicants in a month, I might only be able to process 3... I choose who I process. I don't process the picky applicants. All of the recruiters I know are that way. Yours might be different, but be prepared for that.

I see, so if you have a highly qualified, intelligent, talented recruit who's standards aren't low and won't take any pathetic scraps you're willing to throw him/her, you'll deny them and take a relatively stupid, incapable doofus because they act like a lap dog ie "will do anything" in the Air Force. I don't think that exactly enhances our armed forces, to put it kindly.

Ask about the job selection process. Also ask about the wait time so that you can make plans.

On that at least we agree 100%.

[dmarie123]

No offense but I question this. USAF has USAF standards/regs on how this is supposed to go; MEPS can't just make up their own rules. I would contact the USAF HQ/recruiter center and confirm though.

There are zero actual rules related to job guarantees or how many job choices a recruit must list- those can be set my MEPS or recruiters. When I get 15 plus phone calls and 10 walk-ins a day, I literally MUST choose who to hire. If I don't want to hire a picky applicant, I don't. Most recruiters won't. What will happen if they only want a firefighter job and we don't have one come open for our office for 2 years? They just won't join? Meanwhile, they have been taking up a limited slot on the waiting list from someone who would've been willing to take whatever job we offered. We can only have 300% of our monthly goal on our waiting list. Most monthly goals are TWO PEOPLE! So now, what do I tell those 100+ people a month who want to join? I've got to have a way of picking one over the other.

...which is why a recruit should have a guaranteed job before they go. This should be able to be known and part of the contract.

That is 10000000% not possible for all recruits. There are only a certain number of contracts that will have guaranteed jobs, the rest of the contracts are for open jobs. As long as there are applicants in this country willing to go in "open" without a job promised in writing, the Air Force will continue to write its contracts that way. I have applicants who literally don't care what job they get, as long as they can serve in the Air Force. They are grateful to go in "open" and to have a job at all with the Air Force. That is a fact. That is not me having an attitude, it is literally a fact. I get people who have bachelor degrees who score perfect on the ASVAB willing to take any job. It's not about the job, it's about being in the Air Force.

You can't be serious. Any recruiter who cops that kind of attitude should also be immediately discarded, frankly, and even reported to their superiors.

That is a fact of the way it works. That is not me coping an attitude, it is a fact. Would you go into a company and demand from the hiring manager that they hire you no matter how picky you are? If they had zero cashier jobs to offer you, and instead they offered you a stock job, would you freak out and report them to management because they didn't offer you the job you wanted? If I have a waiting list of people saying, "I'll take any job! I will take any job!!" and the someone comes in and says, "I am only willing to do intelligence"... why would I work with them instead of the next 17 applicants who all say, "I'll take any job, just put me in the Air Force."

The Air Force can't hire an infinite number of people. We need people who want to be in the Air Force, not people who want to be in the Air Force only if they have a certain job.

There are literally over 10,000 people officially on a waiting list for jobs. If I have a goal of 4 each month, I get only 4 jobs.... out of 150 jobs. I'm only allowed to have 12 people on my waiting list at a time. I can't have more than that. If I have 12 people who each are only willing to do 1 job, and I get 4 jobs... what are the chances that my 4 jobs (out of 150 possibilities) are going to match those 12 people? Slim to none. We need applicants who are willing to take those jobs. And it will work this way as long as there are applicants who are willing to.

Imagine this... you are the hiring manager for a company that is overstaffed, and you get 10 applications each day, and you only need to hire 1 person a day. 9 people come in and say, "I will do anything you ask me to, as long as I can work for your company." Then that last applicant comes in and says, "I want to work for you, but only if you give me what I want, only if you let me be a cashier, I'm not willing to do anything else....
They are all intelligent, all have perfect background checks, all meet all qualifications.

Hmmmm....who would you hire?

I wish I could hire everyone... but that is not possible. Literally not possible.

I'm sorry, but only a complete idiot would have this naive attitude as it could end up causing you to have an inspiring career as a fast food "chef" or sitting behind a counter checking in/out gas masks all day. hoooo-ah.

That is where your are wrong though. A career in the Air Force is about being an Airman, about being in the Air Force, about serving your country, it is not about the specific specialty you do. The Air Force doesn't exist so that people can do the exact job they want, the Air Force exists for National Defense. It's not about being a cook (Some has to do that job!) or about checking out gas masks (actually vitally important)... it is about being a part of something bigger, it is about service, and core values, and everyone gets the same benefits regardless of their job.

I see, so if you have a highly qualified, intelligent, talented recruit who's standards aren't low and won't take any pathetic scraps you're willing to throw him/her, you'll deny them and take a relatively stupid, incapable doofus because they act like a lap dog ie "will do anything" in the Air Force. I don't think that exactly enhances our armed forces, to put it kindly.

First of all, we don't take ANY stupid applicants. And being willing to be flexible to serve your country in the capacity they need you to serve in hardly makes you a lap dog.

So you think that some people in the Air Force do pathetic jobs? What pathetic scraps are we offering them? I'm sorry, but we don't have any jobs that are "Pathetic." Glad to know that you think certain people in the military, like cooks and gas mask clerks, are pathetic. Awesome. Way to support the troops.

Everyone coming into the Air Force has to score a 50 on the ASVAB. We don't reserve certain jobs for the idiots or the peons.

I feel like you think that some people are "Too good" to do certain jobs. Those are the attitudes that do not belong. If you think you are "Too good" to do a certain job, then you probably don't belong in the military environment anyway.

Applicants have to literally be willing to lay down their lives in service of their country... so yes, we do need applicants that are willing to do anything.


If you don't like it... go find a job in the civilian world.

I'm not trying to make waves, I'm just trying to prepare the OP for what to expect. OP- chances are, the recruiter is going to refuse to even talk about jobs. We are actually NOT ALLOWED to talk about jobs. Most recruiters do it anyway, but they are not supposed to say, "I don't sell jobs, only the Air Force."

Do you know that EVERY SINGLE LAST RECRUIT signs a contract MONTHS before even knowing if they will get a job, or an aptitude area, or what that job will even be?

It might not be what people what to hear, but this is how it is. If you want the GI Bill, the basic allowance for housing and food, the 100% paid tuition, the job security, the retirement after 20 years, the camaraderie, the honor of wearing a uniform... then you are amount tens of thousands of other people who want those things... and who are not walking around with a sense of entitlement about getting them.

[macjr82]

@Joey2000, as with every order in the military, you can add to, but you can't take away. The DOD has a base minimum for procurement which is like a 26 ASVAB, still you won't be able to join any service with that score. In that same way the USAF might have a base requirement of 3 jobs, or not even have a requirement, but a station commander has the power to add to that.

@Blackie how and why did your daughter already decide on the USAF without talking to a recruiter? The reason I ask is that depending on her reasons, she may able to find what she's looking for in another branch, if she can't get it in the Air Force. You may want to visit all of the services, if she is stuck on that field. Those jobs are present in all of the services. In fact they all attend the same school.

DINFOS - Defense Information School

Every service does pick jobs differently though and may have slightly different requirements for entry and even those can change from month to month.

[dmarie123]

Just to re-iterate... it could be totally different where the OP is going. I think I may have veered a little off on a soap box. To the OP- sorry if I hi-jacked.

I simply meant that some recruiters and some recruiting units won't take applicants who are super concerned about what job they are going to get. Perhaps your recruiter will not be that way.

Here is an example of the danger for the OP. Your daughter needs help paying for college. She is going to get that no matter her job. No matter her job. She's going to get free college the whole time she is in, some great health benefits, really decent pay, a free place to live, ect. Let's say that you and your daughter go into the recruiters office and y'all talk about how great public affairs is. Your daughter gets her heart set on public affairs. She needs a very high 72 on the ASVAB for the job. So if she scores a 71, she can't get that job, period. And you can't retest for 2 years on the ASVAB if you pass (you can retest in 30 days if you fail)... so now she is heartbroken. Will she still join, who knows, but she'll be less happy because she was already set on a job.

Let's say she really wants to do photography, and she gets a good enough score on the ASVAB... so now her heart is really set on it. OK- well, then they find out she has no depth perception so they won't let her do that job anymore. Now she is crushed. Will she still join? If the answer is no... then that's a lot of your daughters time, and the recruiter's time, wasted.

That's why recruiters don't like applicants who are sold on 1 or 2 certain jobs.

What if she qualifies for both jobs? Both of those jobs are rare. Let's say that she goes on the list with 12 other people for that recruiter. The jobs that are about to come open in October are for Feb/Mar. So her recruiter gets a cop job, firefighter, and Air Traffic Control Job that leave in March. Your daughters life, career, pay, college benefits, could all be starting in March... but because she wasn't open to those jobs, she waits for the November list. November comes along and they hand out jobs for April, her recruiter gets Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Sensor Operator, HVAC, and computer programing. Your daughter misses another month of all those benefits, and keeps working her part time job at the mall, or just living at home with you. Then December jobs come, and they are leaving in May... her recruiter gets linguist and has no one on the waiting list for linguist, so the job is given to another recruiter, and her recruiter also gets an intelligence job, and services. No match for your daughter again. Now it's January, and your daughter's recruiter finally gets a photography job leaving in June... but one of the other people has been waiting for photography longer than your daughter, so your daughter waits for February to come along and hopes she gets a job leaving in July. Your daughter's recruiter gets another cop job, fuels, and aircrew egress. Your daughter hopes for an August job... your recruiter gets Space systems, telephone systems, and Air Transportation. This can go on for a year or more!

But ask how the job process works and what your recruiter is seeing as average wait times.

And then please... let me know if it's just me. I'm curious to see what some recruiters in other parts of the county have to say about it.

Some good topics for questions....
Housing allowance vs living in the dorms
How does she pay for food in technical training
When she can start taking college classes
Community College of the Air Force
How the medical benefits work, when do they start
What if she doesn't like her job, what are her options after getting in (I'm on my 3rd job in 9 years).
How does the base/location get chosen
When will she be able to come home to visit
When can you start visiting her
What is a base like to live on? What kinds of things do they have "on base"

[looktowindward]

Originally Posted by dmarie123

Blackie-

Please understand that applicants don't have the power they used to have with the Air Force. Many recruiters would turn your daughter away because she is concerned about jobs, and doesn't have the attitude of "I want to be in the Air Force, I will do any job to be in the Air Force, the only thing that matter is being in the Air Force."

Remember that recruiters don't have to put anyone in. It's a job interview, like any other job. If I have 15 applicants in a month, I might only be able to process 3... I choose who I process. I don't process the picky applicants. All of the recruiters I know are that way. Yours might be different, but be prepared for that.

This is horrible advice and complete and utter BS. Your daughter must insist on a guaranteed military specialty before signing her enlistment papers. Do not let her sign without that. The power dynamic is always with the recruit until they sign papers. Recruiters always need more bodies.

If the AF is unreasonable, try the Navy.

[blackie123]

She was told by her recruiter at school and on the "live chat" on the Air Forec web site that very few people actually apply for these jobs and she may actually have a chance to get in. As far as the ASVAB she has been not only studying but is an honors student and is has already taken dual credit college courses. Not too worried especially if it is similar to what her father and I took. Thanks for all your advice though. We appreciate it.

[macjr82]

I know for a fact she can get the job in the Marines, b/c I have young lady shipping with that very program (media option) in Jan .

[blackie123]

Well she was looking at the Navy originally but her consern is her lack of swimming skills. If she was to go into the Navy would they teach her? How much would she need to know before going in?