I'm 30. Can I still join the military?

[joe from dayton]

Most people don't join for a career, so part of the problem generally takes care of itself. It is not uncommon for NCOs to have multiple specialties or job skills in order to increase promotional opportunities. For example, I was an MP and my squad leader was a former tanker. I know a guy who was a truck driver and went to school to become a mess sgt. (I think he went to cooking school as an E6). In addition, there is no requirement to make E5 (Sgt) on your first enlistment. Depending on your specialty, assignments and performance, expect to make E5 in 3-8 years.

[Poncho_NM]

Originally Posted by FFestus

But obviously it is impossible for all E4's to become E5's, since there are a lot more E4 positions than there are E5 positions.

The military is not for everyone. Many get out voluntarily, when their obligation is over. I have known some who have gotten out early, voluntarily, for special programs.

You seem to keep assuming many get "kicked out". Some are released because they just can not take it, some, the majority get out voluntarily because it is not what they expected, some get out voluntarily because they wish to pursue other careers.

Originally Posted by FFestus

In other words, odds are that the average person won't be able to retire from the armed forces. They will be kicked out while a lucky few will become E5's.

You are wrong...

What makes you think that "lucky few will become E5's.". I believe you can not normally retire as an E-5 in the Army. I believe you have to be an E-6. Some make E-6 and are reduced in rank to perhaps E-5 for some misconduct, they may retire. I have seen a few, I don't always know the reason.

You are talking about enlisted personnel, your statement "odds are that the average person won't be able to retire from the armed forces." Is incorrect. Show me some facts. I believe about 20% of Army Enlisted stay to retirement. I do not believe 80% were 'kicked out' as you claim. It was a very low percentage, but to be honest, I do not know the numbers.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by FFestus

But obviously it is impossible for all E4's to become E5's, since there are a lot more E4 positions than there are E5 positions.

In other words, odds are that the average person won't be able to retire from the armed forces. They will be kicked out while a lucky few will become E5's.

Among E3s some will be focused and some will not. Some will really compete for advancement and others will simply wait for their enlistments to end.

Some lose their battle with weight-control, some may goof-up somewhere and result in a black-mark on their evaluations. It happens at every pay-grade.

Even among the officers, where I spent most of my career, the officers had a 3-year window in which to advance. At each pay-grade only a portion of them will be advancing. So they compete. Some 'win' and some do not.

The Command is required to rank every pay-grade in their evaluation marks.
Annual evaluations start with factual write-ups of all your accomplishments. Then using a dozen different categories your accomplishments are graded and given a mark from a 1.0 to 5.0. [so you then have a dozen marks between 1.0 and 5.0]. Each individual's evals are then averaged to give you a final mark.

Then every E1 eval, every E2 eval [every eval for every servicemember at that command] must be averaged and charted.

The overall average for each pay-grade must be 3.0. and no more than 5% can be '5.0'.

So if the Command presents one E4 with 5.0 there is likely one chosen E4 scapegoat given a 1.0 [or two chosen E4 scapegoats given 2.0s to balance out the one 5.0].

After this is all figured out and charted; there are meetings where this is discussed, the chosen 'golden-haired boys' and the chosen scapegoats are all decided; then they go back through the evals and re-adjust the marks to conform to the chosen outcome.

You can have a brilliant write-up documenting an heroic event where your life was at risk and you saved lives; the write-up itself could recommend you for a medal. and it could be given a 1.0 mark.

And yes, I have taken part in these meetings where these things were decided.

[121804]

Originally Posted by Poncho_NM

What is wrong with being a cook?

I quickly learned the immense power of those who made us hot food when doing FTXs in the snow.

[Synergy1]

I too would enjoy seeing facts on "...the average person won't be able to retire from the armed forces". I wanted to make the military a career but I was wounded a few separate times in Vietnam that eventually rendered me permanently disabled...

I made E-5 in 2 years and was up for E-6 on my 3rd year as I was was in the field on a combat mission in Vietnam. I was wounded and discovered I was unable to do any more combat work in my condition then sent back to the states to begin a recovery plan. The E-6 was given to another combat troop who was well qualified...

In a combat zone positions usually are more readily available for obvious reasons. My ex co-worker's son is an officer in Afghanistan. He is a Captain and going on his 6th year in the service. He was promoted to Cpt. during his 5th year and had 3 tours in a combat zone. A higher position in the ranks of an "Officer" are usually more difficult to achieve because of the scarcity of positions available and probably the amount of times an officer is willing to go where a higher rank is available and the amount of times he/she would be inserted into harms way. So a person in a combat zone could achieve more rank faster than someone who has lengthly stateside duty....

...

[GeorgiaTransplant]

Originally Posted by Synergy1

I too would enjoy seeing facts on "...the average person won't be able to retire from the armed forces". I wanted to make the military a career but I was wounded a few separate times in Vietnam that eventually rendered me permanently disabled...

I made E-5 in 2 years and was up for E-6 on my 3rd year as I was was in the field on a combat mission in Vietnam. I was wounded and discovered I was unable to do any more combat work in my condition then sent back to the states to begin a recovery plan. The E-6 was given to another combat troop who was well qualified...

In a combat zone positions usually are more readily available for obvious reasons. My ex co-worker's son is an officer in Afghanistan. He is a Captain and going on his 6th year in the service. He was promoted to Cpt. during his 5th year and had 3 tours in a combat zone. A higher position in the ranks of an "Officer" are usually more difficult to achieve because of the scarcity of positions available and probably the amount of times an officer is willing to go where a higher rank is available and the amount of times he/she would be inserted into harms way. So a person in a combat zone could achieve more rank faster than someone who has lengthly stateside duty....

...

I literally JUST wrote this up for the thread about Marine Corps officers. You're mistaken on the 'person in a combat zone could achieve more rank faster than someone who has lengthy stateside duty...' for officers, anyway (enlisted, is a completely different system, this writeup is for officers):

--------------------SNIP--------------------------
The way promotions work in all services is they take everybody commissioned in a certain year, and call that a 'year group' or something similar.

Everyone in a certain year group gets looked at for promotion at roughly the same time, and those times are pretty predictable: 1 year 'early' (below the zone) from O-4 on, 1 year 'on time' (in zone), and 1 or more years 'late' (above the zone) for all ranks. Promotion to O-2 is generally automatic and O-3 generally doesn't have an early look.

So, for the sake of argument, you get commissioned in 2010.
You're now an O-1, year group 2010.

18-24 months later, you're an O-2.

18-24 months after that, an O-3.

About 6 years after that, you get looked at for O-4, below zone (very slim chance-perhaps 4-5% of a year group being looked at 'below zone' are promoted).

1 year after that, IF you didn't get BZed, you get looked at for O-4, in zone (fairly good chance, about 70-80% of those who are being looked at 'in zone' are promoted-lately, much higher for O-4 and O-5).

1 year after that, IF you didn't make it in primary zone, you get looked at for O-4 above zone (reasonable chance, about 20-30% of those who are being looked at 'above zone' are promoted).

Effectively, this makes it incredibly difficult to be promoted significantly earlier than your peers: you have to get multiple below zone promotions, and statistically the odds are against you regardless of your performance.

Those who can do it once probably have the kind of record to have a shot at it again-but don't count on it. It only takes one mediocre (I didn't say bad) evaluation to destroy any chance of BZing.

Thus, most people make rank exactly when they were 'supposed' to make it, and even the most incredible BZ case (I've only ever personally met ONE person who pulled this off) would make Colonel, at absolute fastest, 3 years before all the peers he commissioned with (the 3x BZer would make it at about 19 years of service, the normal guy at about 22 years of service).

I can assure you Captains don't get promoted to Major at 4 years as a Captain (or 7-8 total years of service). It's at roughly 10-11 years of service.

Know that before you get into it. You can be the best officer ever, but this isn't the civil war: there are dues to pay in terms of blood, sweat, tears, and field time, and nobody makes Colonel without a couple of decades of service. Many never make it higher than Lieutenant Colonel, and that's considered a successful career: an O-5 (Lieutenant Colonel) can stay in for roughly 28 years of service if he or she wants.
----------------------SNIP-----------------------------

Being in a combat zone multiple times probably helps you more than joe_schmoe who has never deployed, but it doesn't help you get looked at any earlier, it just makes it more likely that you will be one of the selectees when your board actually does meet.