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SOME VETS don't get hired because of what he/she said. SOME VETS fit it to a T. I THINK the truth is you are one of those vets who has those attitudes.
Happy?
Are you going to READ what I have written or just spout off at the mouth some more?
Just in case you don't like to read, I said I did not agree how he/she stated it....it was a BLANKET statement "VET'S DON'T GET HIRED", if he/she would have said "some vet's don't get hired because", then I would have never said a word....
And NO, I'm not one of those vets, THAT is why I took offense to what was said.....
While he does present some truths, I also believe PacificFlights has inserted quite a few stereotypical remarks that, at first read also gave me the impression that he was done wrong by the military and he doesnt like them for a reason other than they have bad interviewing skills.
Actually, I love the US military, they are our best paying customers especially because they pay so much.
Truth is I was thinking of joining the military, but took a summer job out of high school and that led to this job which I had for the last 26 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jifie
Quotes like "they just do not know how to function and present in a civilian world. " and "military chest beating" lead me to that conclusion.
let me explain, this is not about former military, it's about former anyone that has not been educated on transitioning from one way to another way. The military is the militray and its not civilian work enviroments or employment, and the faster that sinks into whom evers head is task with helping military persons leaving for the civilian work force, the faster things will start to change. The militray is not civilian, just like civilian are not military, thats why the militray traines you on the military when you first join. They have to get you to do it the militray way with customs, policies, rules, laws, chain of command, respect, etc etec etc. Its different but what training does a military person leaveing get on beinga civilian? Its almost as if they walk out the gate and suddenly they are expected to be a civilian. I am not faulting the veteran, I;m faulting the leadership that abandons them at the gate!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jifie
And for what its worth, I think most interviewers would appreciate that you not only inform them of your accomplishments, but also what circumstances the accomplishments were under. For example, many jobs require tight deadlines and high stress, if I told you I completed X number of reports or moved X number of cargo in the middle of a war zone, would that not show that I am capable of handling a great deal of stress that goes along with the job and am able to function well under intense scrutiny?
But that is not what actually happens with resumes and interviews. What happens is they tend to explain the "battles" and not necessarily what they accomplished and did relating to the job they are seeking. If we are hiring a security officer, I need to know what that person can and did that mwill make them a good security officer. If you start with a senteence or two about your "security" related work but end up giving a blow by blow of the entire war theater, you lost me aftre the thrid sentence. Civilian employers are not hiring the entire batallion, we're hiring a individual person, so make the conversation about the person, not the military.
maybe I;m not explaining it right but if you drove a bus in the city and is interviweing about driving a bus for another city, what do i care about the entire makeup and accomplishment of the entire Regional Transportation Authority? If you managed to drive that bus through the city during a balckout with no accidents, talk about that experience. tell me how you personally managed it. tell me about the problems that you faces and how you overcame it. How did you deal with passenegrs, all that is of great interest. But if you spend more time discussing the blackout itself and not what you did during it, belive me, another candidate probably is.
I will say this again to make it clear, ex military may be the best person for jobs but if nobody is helping them write resumes, helping them understand what to put on civilian employment applications or how to interview with civilian employeers, don;t be surprised att he high unemplyment.
Are you going to READ what I have written or just spout off at the mouth some more?
Just in case you don't like to read, I said I did not agree how he/she stated it....it was a BLANKET statement "VET'S DON'T GET HIRED", if he/she would have said "some vet's don't get hired because", then I would have never said a word....
And NO, I'm not one of those vets, THAT is why I took offense to what was said.....
I read it. YOU said he (PacificFlights) didn't like the military when he wrote a post that was critical of people using . Full stop. Go back and read what you wrote, exactly, please:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
Gee....it's obvious you don't like the military....Got it!!
I think he's just giving us an honest opinion of a civilian hiring manager. I understand it offends you...but, it was an honest and fair statement. I wrote very quickly and didn't use qualifiers (some, many, a few, etc.), and for that, I apologize. However, I think he had some extremely fair points that apply to many former military.
Among them, he wrote about using acronyms the interviewer may be unfamiliar with, how vets sometimes explain how they do it in the military, military chest beating, and using excuses for why you're not hired based on being a vet.
In another post, you wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
Well, as a fairly recently retired SNCO (Aug 2009) it was very difficult in getting a job....
My stats:
Aviation my entire 21 years and 24 days....
1 class from a degree....
Numerous schools under my belt...(Aviation related) CH-47 Standardization Instructor
14 years experience in CH-47..
6 years experience [b]oh-58/AH-1[b].... All the Army attributes that go along with being in for so long....
Now, the kicker.....I live in Huntsville Alabama, for those of you who don't know, this is where Army Aviation begins...this is where all the major decision about all Army ACFT are made....the Project Managers (PM's) are.
I really though I would walk into a very nice job.....I had 119 days of permissive TDY.....and the first 30 belonged to me....but the rest of the time was devoted to finding a job....and FINALLY, with 2 weeks left...I landed a very nice job....
My friend in TX is going through the same thing I went through....he has a 4 year degree....retired Army....he began in the medical field then went to Aviation ...has all the Safety classes and just about everything I have....
As of right now.....he does not have a job....
Did the truth hurt a little? Could you maybe have resembled his statemnet?
Did you actually examine how you may have interviewed in a way that did not 'civilianize' well and that had something to do with your job search length despite what are very good credentials, or did you just get pissy at me and post because I didn't go nodding my head and say 'mmm hmm, he HAS to hate military'?
I read it. YOU said he (PacificFlights) didn't like the military when he wrote a post that was critical of people using . Full stop. Go back and read what you wrote, exactly, please:
No no, I did, it was a very few simple words...Why did that make you mad? I never said it was NOT the truth (this will be the 2nd time I have said it does NOT equate to ALL Vet's) why is that so hard for you to believe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant
I think he's just giving us an honest opinion of a civilian hiring manager. I understand it offends you...but, it was an honest and fair statement. I wrote very quickly and didn't use qualifiers (some, many, a few, etc.), and for that, I apologize. However, I think he had some extremely fair points that apply to many former military.
See, you have just proved to everyone reading these post's you DID not read anything I wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant
Among them, he wrote about using acronyms the interviewer may be unfamiliar with, how vets sometimes explain how they do it in the military, military chest beating, and using excuses for why you're not hired based on being a vet.
Again, if he/she would have said SOME....
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant
In another post, you wrote:
You obviously missed the part where I used a service to take all that military talk out...this was due to me NOT understanding how to speak civilian....OH and I'm not writing my resume here....but just to show you what was written in my resume....
Military lingo: CH47 Standardization Instructor (since that is something you highlighted).
Civilian lingo: The ability to teach people the inter-working's of extremely complicated machinery, able to make sure they are able to identify problems and make on the spot decision when needed.
(that was just off the top of my head) but you may or may not get the idea? Not the best...but just something written while drinking beer...not to bad...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant
Did the truth hurt a little? Could you maybe have resembled his statemnet?
Again no, where I did get a job, is still very hard to get a job...Huntsville Alabama...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant
Did you actually examine how you may have interviewed in a way that did not 'civilianize' well and that had something to do with your job search length despite what are very good credentials, or did you just get pissy at me and post because I didn't go nodding my head and say 'mmm hmm, he HAS to hate military'?
I got pissy with you because you supported him, and then came back saying "just a little bit of truth."
Why will you not answer any of the question I asked of you? All you have done is bring more dribble to this thread....all about me and what/how I was supposed to act...
Oh and if YOU have not figured it out, I did agree with him/her, I have even agreed with YOU on this subject......but for some reason you have NOT seen that?
Why will you not answer any of the question I asked of you?
I just went through ALL of your responses...again...
and found...
"So what your saying is he described YOU"
Not a question. A statement. If you want me to treat it as a QUESTION [is he describing YOU?], try to phrase it as a question: no. I sit on hiring boards for government civilians. I'm not looking for a job.
"So ALL VETS don't get hired because of what he/she said....."
That's also a statement. If treated as a question: no. I didn't use a qualifier (some, many) when I should have.
"Did you get hired?"
Ah! A question! None of your business.
"Oh and I'm a Vet with over 21+ years of service....so I don't want to hear "I don't know what I'm talking about", I have been in the civilian work force for a little over 2 years...."
That's a statement. Do you have a question?
"Are these Vets out there that he/she is talking about? Yes they are, but to say (AS YOU DID) Vets don't get hired because of this, is a little idiotic...."
That's essentially a statement. Is that actually a question directed at me here, or was that simply a rhetorical statement phrased as a question, as it appears?
"Absolutely not, but that is not what he/she said, go back and read and then get back with me...
Oh, and did you notice how the things just kept getting worse and worse....as he/she kept talking....
If you think he/she likes the Vets, maybe you should get together... "
Three statements, unless the rhetorical "did you notice" is a real question, in which case: not sure what your point is. Got a question in there somewhere?
"There are those military types that are hard core and set in their ways, I have no doubt about that....
But to say Vet's DON'T gt hired....meaning all vets, is wrong....
If they would have said something like this:
I have a problem with SOME Vet's because of the following problems,
They write a military resume, not a civilian resume.
They talk to much about the military experience.
They don't know how to interact.
I would agree with most of those, but to say Vet's don't get hired....is false."
Eight statements. Question?
"I guess you also agree that all Vet's also beat their chest during an interview....."
Statement. If treated as a question, see my phrase about using qualifiers. Sorry about not using the "many" qualifier, and that's the last time I'll apologize for it.
"Are you going to READ what I have written or just spout off at the mouth some more?"
Question! Yes, I did read what you have written, and a hard slog it was, indeed.
"Just in case you don't like to read, I said I did not agree how he/she stated it....it was a BLANKET statement "VET'S DON'T GET HIRED", if he/she would have said "some vet's don't get hired because", then I would have never said a word....
And NO, I'm not one of those vets, THAT is why I took offense to what was said....."
Two statements.
"No no, I did, it was a very few simple words...Why did that make you mad? I never said it was NOT the truth (this will be the 2nd time I have said it does NOT equate to ALL Vet's) why is that so hard for you to believe?"
2 questions: it made me mad because it was a typical knee-jerk self-pity reaction I commonly see when interviewing veterans who have not learned to civilianize their experience.
He didn't gush about how great all veterans were-he actually pointed out what he sees as systemic flaws many veterans make in their interview techniques, so you accused him of not liking the military. Based on that statement, I concluded you really do have an issue.
"See, you have just proved to everyone reading these post's you DID not read anything I wrote. "
I think it's fair to now say I comprehensively have.
"Again, if he/she would have said SOME...."
Statement.
"You obviously missed the part where I used a service to take all that military talk out...this was due to me NOT understanding how to speak civilian....OH and I'm not writing my resume here....but just to show you what was written in my resume....
Military lingo: CH47 Standardization Instructor (since that is something you highlighted).
Civilian lingo: The ability to teach people the inter-working's of extremely complicated machinery, able to make sure they are able to identify problems and make on the spot decision when needed.
(that was just off the top of my head) but you may or may not get the idea? Not the best...but just something written while drinking beer...not to bad..."
I get the idea.
"Again no, where I did get a job, is still very hard to get a job...Huntsville Alabama..."
Statement, and, so?
"I got pissy with you because you supported him, and then came back saying "just a little bit of truth."
Why will you not answer any of the question I asked of you? All you have done is bring more dribble to this thread....all about me and what/how I was supposed to act...
Oh and if YOU have not figured it out, I did agree with him/her, I have even agreed with YOU on this subject......but for some reason you have NOT seen that? "
I just answered every single question you have written since my post (although as far as I can see there were really only six that were actually not self-serving rhetoric phrased as statements, and most of those were pretty trite), and I even answered additional ones that were actually not phrased as questions. Do you have any more?
I also think that vets are fiercely independent, and do not like to ask for help. There is help out there to find employment, but many vets don't go ask for help on interviewing, resume skills, finding vet friendly employment. There are vet employment specialist at most state employment centers, and vet employment specialists at vet centers. So, it may not be the best job, and that is another problem, a lot of military jobs don't translate well into civilian jobs, so it may be like starting over for some veterans. That is difficult to adjust to...
Don't forget, there is the GI bill, and other benefits. But, money is an issue...so use your unemployment, and hit the ground running. For those of you recieving a pension, not quite so stressful, but still difficult to break into employment...think what you would really like to do...one veteran I worked with wanted to teach school, but he did not have his degree, so he was an assistant, at a school for behavior disordered kids, he was great. They actually started a "boot camp" PE class, that he was basically in charge of...and he worked on his degree. There are opportunities in state employment, and other government agencies...
Many people are more aware of the problems vets have in transitioning to civilian employment, and are ready to work with you...go ask for help, if you are having problems... the first step...
It's a tough job market, no doubt. I respect KickAssArmyChic's "take anything available" approach. NAF (Non-Appropriated Fund) jobs, AAFES jobs (if near a military installation) can provide outstanding "networking" opportunities and open doors - same with DeCA (Commissary) gigs. Don't dismiss Civil Service "Wage" jobs, some pay nicely.
...And the latest is: The Air Force is on a 90-day hiring freeze (or will implement this very shortly). My understanding is, most co-workers were aware of an email message on this topic; I went to the Air Force website and confirmed it. Along with the freeze, Temp and Term employees were mentioned (not in a good light) and possible early retirement incentives were mentioned for senior tenured folks. Brother, this is very significant. It appears the AF is trying to whittle down the budget in advance of major cuts.
I am an Army employee (AF Retiree), but with the Joint Basing I believe we're "joined at the hip" and there won't be any good news for Army civilian folks in the coming year (Elemendorf AFB & Ft. Richardson are now JBER - Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson).
And don't forget, IMOGAJAD, there's always the "Bubba P. Waters Academy of Truck Drivin' Sciences n' Stuff" if flippin' burgers doesn't work for ya! Heck, there's SO many vets out here pushin' freight that we could have our own Special Ops Gp. (especially since most of the vets on the Cee Be radio were SEALs or Delta Force...)
Last edited by Poncho_NM; 08-21-2011 at 10:19 AM..
Reason: Fixed quote
Where the Jobs Are: Siemens Exceeds Veteran Hiring Pledge; Increases Commitment by Additional 50 Percent to Help Fill Over 3,000 Open Positions - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Where-the-Jobs-Are-Siemens-prnews-2801099542.html?x=0&.v=1 - broken link)
Maybe border patrol or homeland security? Those are two areas seem to be hiring in recent years. When I got out of the service 20 years ago I went to work for the Post Office and many people working there are veterans. Unfortunately, hiring there has dried up, even for veterans.
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Heck, there's SO many vets out here pushin' freight that we could have our own Special Ops Gp. (especially since most of the vets on the Cee Be radio were SEALs or Delta Force...
)
