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Old 06-13-2012, 09:35 AM
 
4,919 posts, read 19,125,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJBarney View Post
I would think people who need to know (employers, etc) would put much more stock in a -214 than an ID card. The -214 is a legal document that shows everything, including character of service.

Which is the real reason "they" want to see it anyway.

There's no real point to this bill. Anyone who needs to verify their character of service produces a DD-214. Simple as that.
Not everyone will accept a DD-214 because its just a piece of plain paper that can be forged by some 13 year old kid without a date for the weekend. We ask for the DD-214 for the purpose of sucking information off it, but its not considered an official doucment to us. The official document is the one that the veteran signs and authorizes us to receive direct from the service. And yes, I have seen altered DD-214s that added or erased information that was on it and diffred from the official copy sent to us.

isn;t there already an ID card available through the US-VA? I have seen many produce, so not sure why another card is required when one already exist. The only reason i can think of is the US-VA card requires you to go to the US-VA and apply instead of (based on what I understand is behind this issue) having one issued at dscharge that is more "Former Military" and not so much just a veteran.
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:39 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,132 posts, read 38,871,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee View Post
isn;t there already an ID card available through the US-VA?
Yes, but...
Veterans Identification Card

The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) provides eligible Veterans a Veterans Identification Card (VIC) for use at VA Medical Facilities. The VIC protects the privacy of Veterans' sensitive information, as it no longer displays the Social Security Number or Date of Birth on the front of the card. The VIC will only display the Veteran's name, picture, and special eligibility indicators - Service Connected, Purple Heart and Former POW, if applicable, on the front of the card. Only Veterans who are eligible for VA medical benefits will receive the card.


To receive a VIC, the Veteran must have his/her picture taken for the card at the VA Medical Facility. The card will be mailed to the Veteran within 7-10 days after the Veteranís eligibility has been verified. To ensure the VIC is received at the appropriate address, it is important that the Veteranís address is verified and the correct address is entered in the VistA computer system. If the U.S. Postal Service cannot deliver the card, it will be returned to the facility where the Veteran requested the card.


Veterans Identification Card - Health Benefits Home Page
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:07 AM
 
833 posts, read 1,416,462 times
Reputation: 764
..THE..
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
Not everyone will accept a DD-214 because its just a piece of plain paper that can be forged by some 13 year old kid without a date for the weekend. We ask for the DD-214 for the purpose of sucking information off it, but its not considered an official doucment to us. The official document is the one that the veteran signs and authorizes us to receive direct from the service. And yes, I have seen altered DD-214s that added or erased information that was on it and diffred from the official copy sent to us.

isn;t there already an ID card available through the US-VA? I have seen many produce, so not sure why another card is required when one already exist. The only reason i can think of is the US-VA card requires you to go to the US-VA and apply instead of (based on what I understand is behind this issue) having one issued at dscharge that is more "Former Military" and not so much just a veteran.

What------------idiots-------- won't accept DD214 ?

It was ---THE--- documentation the State Veterans Cemetery in Minnesota asked me to produce when I pre-registered.

It was....the.....documentation the court house in Arkansas asked in order to recieve a discount on my license plates.


If any place balks at a DD214, they would balk at any military ID shown also.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:43 AM
 
4,919 posts, read 19,125,044 times
Reputation: 6171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
Yes, but...
Veterans Identification Card
Only Veterans who are eligible for VA medical benefits will receive the card.

Well that bites. You would think they would issue a Veteran ID card to all vets so long as they register with the US-VA. Odd, most countries do recognize the vets in some form by their government.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf fan View Post
What------------idiots-------- won't accept DD214 ?
Those idiots who know that a plain old piece of white paper can be forged on a computer by anyone with basic skills.

Those idiots who know from experience that former military members have altered their discharge papers to remove undesirable information or add information to embellish their service.

Those idiots who know they can have the veteran sign a form and get an actual, unaltered copy direct from the military.

As much as I would love to blindly accept someones DD-214 at face value, I'm sorry but too many prior ex-military has ruied that by attempting to alter their discharge paper to make them self something they were not, received certain medals they did not, acheive certain status they did not, or eliminate items they didnt want other to know about. You want to place blame, place it on the idiots who screwed it up for all the rest......
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,132 posts, read 38,871,775 times
Reputation: 28099
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf fan View Post
..THE..


What------------idiots-------- won't accept DD214 ?
Me, some government agencies, DoD Contractors, schools etc. We look at it, get signed release statements for employment and education checks etc (Your DD214 is in essence an employment record) and request an official copy of the DD214.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Petticoat Junction
930 posts, read 1,575,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
Not everyone will accept a DD-214 because its just a piece of plain paper that can be forged by some 13 year old kid without a date for the weekend. We ask for the DD-214 for the purpose of sucking information off it, but its not considered an official doucment to us. The official document is the one that the veteran signs and authorizes us to receive direct from the service. And yes, I have seen altered DD-214s that added or erased information that was on it and diffred from the official copy sent to us.

It is a legal document, that's not changed because "we" (who's we?) won't accept it. Anything can be forged...does that mean we don't accept anything that anyone's ever faked?

Besides, you say you do accept it...the official copy sent to you. So, whats your argument again?

Do you think this notional 'vet ID card' wouldn't be forged? You ever see a fake driver's license in the hands of an underage teenager?

My thinking is that if you want to add trouble/expense/etc to the system by adding another piece of ID, then you have to show what it adds in value. The burden of proof is on those who want this new ID.

Another piece of ID that is effectively no different from existing forms of ID adds nothing to the equation...and therefore, is a waste of resources.
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:06 PM
 
833 posts, read 1,416,462 times
Reputation: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbarney View Post
it is a legal document, that's not changed because "we" (who's we?) won't accept it. anything can be forged...does that mean we don't accept anything that anyone's ever faked?

Besides, you say you do accept it...the official copy sent to you. So, whats your argument again?

Do you think this notional 'vet id card' wouldn't be forged? You ever see a fake driver's license in the hands of an underage teenager?

My thinking is that if you want to add trouble/expense/etc to the system by adding another piece of id, then you have to show what it adds in value. The burden of proof is on those who want this new id.

Another piece of id that is effectively no different from existing forms of id adds nothing to the equation...and therefore, is a waste of resources.

bingo !
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:17 PM
 
833 posts, read 1,416,462 times
Reputation: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
Me, some government agencies, DoD Contractors, schools etc. We look at it, get signed release statements for employment and education checks etc (Your DD214 is in essence an employment record) and request an official copy of the DD214.
-


" request an official copy "---

And what is not " official" about my DD214 that I have before me right now ?

It states at top-----------" please safeguard this important document "

Please state your definition of-" official "
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:51 PM
 
4,919 posts, read 19,125,044 times
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A DD-214 is only as official as someone's ability to verify that its official.

How they verify is up to them. Them may bdecide to accept it on the fuill faith of the presentor that its original and not altered.

They may accept it as basic information subject to further verification

Or they may look at it the same just some computer printed piece and reject it.

It is not my obligation to accept your documents as real. Our company does not accept any routinly altered documents as real and we only accept those that have been officially verified as true, official and accurate douments. The DD-214 that you produce is only as official as you belive it to be, but that has little weight with us.

and to be honest, what the heck does some printed wording that says "please safeguard this important document" have to do with proof of a documets authenticity? I can put that on a made up copy of a Navy SEALS Training certificate and it makes it no more real than a picture of me standing next to the martian aliens at area 51 drinking mai tais. Be Real.. For military people, some of you sure are lacking in grey matter....

To those wondering why, once again, a DD-214 lacks any form of security safeguards on it. It has no special watermark. It has no special designed paper, It has no raised seals. It has no stamps or embossing. It has no alteration detection properties. ANBD, you can go online and get blank copies that you fill out and print from yuor own computer. A DD-214 is easier to fake than a university transcript or a college ID card. Also, since they have been faked by non veterans and vetrans alike, its all to easy to have information added or ommited. Even many states temporay paper licneses have more safeguards than a DD-214. Verifying the information by only accepting officially obtained copies of a DD214 is the best way to ensure that LEGITIMATE VETERANS are being granted services and employment based on REAL MILITARY SERVICE.

Anyway, if you have a beef with it, maybe you should be directing your frustration on all those former military folks who cause the need by altering their DD-214. Would not be a problem if not for the untrustworthyness, fraud and criminal acts of former militray members.
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
27,798 posts, read 24,859,410 times
Reputation: 14611
For those of you carrying around your 214, I'd recommend you make several notarized copies for the purposes described in this thread. It's not a document you want to lose or mangle.
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