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Old 12-07-2011, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Between amicable and ornery
1,089 posts, read 1,373,817 times
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I was reading an article in Time Magazine (which I could not find to reference), so I copied this link instead:
http://http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1997/07/the-widening-gap-between-military-and-society/6158/ (broken link)

Last edited by MAXIALE02; 12-07-2011 at 10:40 PM.. Reason: my link doesn't go to the correct page
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:09 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,047,885 times
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I think it's a natural result of an all-volunteer military. Elitism is built into the system and those outside it are allowed to ignore it altogether. Frankly, I think it's dangerous to our democracy.

By the way, that link doesn't work.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:02 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,152 posts, read 38,939,742 times
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The correct link is: The Widening Gap Between Military and Society - Magazine - The Atlantic


I scanned the article... There always has been a gap of sorts between military and the rest of society. The article really makes little sense to me. The author, who I never heard of, apparently is well educated, but could he find a Snickers bar in an ammo patch of a strapped on TA-50 gear? I really don't understand the article. It is beyond this old Soldiers comprehension... ;
Quote:
One typical member of Platoon 3086, Craig Hoover, reported that the Amtrak ride home to Kensington, Maryland, was "horrible." The train was "filled with smoke," he said. "People were drinking and their kids were running around aimlessly.
Quote:
In some ways this is nothing new. The military can be seen as just reverting to its pre-Second World War and pre-Cold War stances—socially isolated, politically conservative, and working primarily on bases in the South and West
Quote:
With the evaporation of the Soviet Union, many Americans don't understand why the nation needs a large standing army. For the first time in its history (with the possible exception of the two decades preceding the Spanish-American War) the U.S. Army must justify its existence to the American people.
What does that all mean? Never mind, don't answer. I figured out the URL problem, I'm good to go...


Rich

Last edited by Poncho_NM; 12-08-2011 at 08:18 AM..
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:42 AM
 
11,987 posts, read 10,692,580 times
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I think the gap is unfortunate. I wish Americans were more connected to their military and more engaged in the discussion of how they should be used. There is a lot of positive things to be said about the all volunteer force, but one of the negatives is that Americans can choose to ignore wars we are involved in -- Afghansitan is now back page news. Are Americans who die there in 2011 any less valuable than those who died there in 2002?
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,047,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
I think the gap is unfortunate. I wish Americans were more connected to their military and more engaged in the discussion of how they should be used. There is a lot of positive things to be said about the all volunteer force, but one of the negatives is that Americans can choose to ignore wars we are involved in -- Afghansitan is now back page news. Are Americans who die there in 2011 any less valuable than those who died there in 2002?

Just having a citizen's Army (i.e: Draft) isn't a guarantee that the public won't forget a war is in progress. The same thing happened in the latter days of the Vietnam War, even though a majority of the troops there during the last 3 or 4 years were draftees.

One should never forget that in a democracy, war must be continually "sold" to the public. FDR did that by involving everyone in the war effort, soldiers and civilian's, and never letting up on the domestic propaganda. That's the gold standard which we have not matched since. Not surprisingly, every war we've fought since, of any decent length, has faced either opposition from the public or growing apathy.

In regards to the current war, do you remember what George Bush called us to do in response to 9/11? Go to the mall and let his administration fight the war! Now, 10 years later, it should not be surprising that we've grown weary of hearing of it.
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho
804 posts, read 2,399,396 times
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I see a lot of people in the military that the military is all they know. They are shocked when they hear someone wants to get out and think that those who get out are flat out stupid.
The military teaches you a lot of good qualities but having some 'real world knowledge' to bring to the table is essential. When someone only knows what the service has tought them and has no experience in the real world they tend to make a poor leader in my opinion and experience.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:29 AM
 
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That article was written July 1997 - Almost 15 years ago. A lot has happened since then. The author also completely overlooked the Reserves and National Guard, two components that by definition live in the civilian sector.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:22 AM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 4,834,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearnofish View Post
I see a lot of people in the military that the military is all they know. They are shocked when they hear someone wants to get out and think that those who get out are flat out stupid.
i have never seen this. i have seen people stay in because they are not sure what they would do outside of the military. but i have not seen a single instance of incredulity or disdain for those getting out.
EDIT: i take that last statement back––partially. i do remember one instance of disdain now. but it came from my company first sergeant when i told him i was not reenlisting. but he had been pursuing the marines in my company with more fervor than any recruiter i have ever encountered, enough that i was beginning to think he was getting awarded somehow for every marine that reenlisted. he did act surprised, angry, and confused by my decision to not reenlist and even told me that i owed it to him to reenlist. and i wouldn't be surprised if this was his reaction to the many other marines that were getting out at the same time. however, his was the only negative reaction that i saw in my entire enlistment to another marine deciding to get out rather than reenlist.
rather, the majority of the marines that i served with could not wait to get out, and many of those that could not get out yet were very jealous. i have seen a lot of troops that were planning on staying in for another enlistment or even to retire from the service decide at the last minute to leave and go join the civilian world once again.

Quote:
The military teaches you a lot of good qualities but having some 'real world knowledge' to bring to the table is essential. When someone only knows what the service has tought them and has no experience in the real world they tend to make a poor leader in my opinion and experience.
this i agree with. i am glad that i waited a few years before enlisting. i think it helped me cope with the ridiculous aspects of marine corps culture, and it gave me the courage and perspective when i got out that i could do well and make it, since i had already done it before.
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Old 12-09-2011, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Between amicable and ornery
1,089 posts, read 1,373,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke_Jaguar4 View Post
That article was written July 1997 - Almost 15 years ago. A lot has happened since then. The author also completely overlooked the Reserves and National Guard, two components that by definition live in the civilian sector.
Yes the article is 15 years old, I picked it at the spur of the moment since I did not have access to the Time Magazine article that was written last month. Although the article is 15 years old, the subject is very much relevant. I'm interested in hearing dialogue from others who have experience or opinions about this "gap". Thanks.
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Old 12-10-2011, 09:10 AM
 
5,106 posts, read 6,073,593 times
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I question the objectivity of the article or the study? The timing of 1997 may be reflective more of a time or data in the 1960 and 1970s, not post 9/11 and the multiple deployment and redeployments of citizen soldiers, professional soldiers, and veterans. I question the term 'society' as being the proper term. which society, what society, where?

I have walked through airports and people applaud, or walk up to soldiers and say 'thank you'. Wounded Warriors has so much support to help those wounded and their families.

But then you get back to the word society, a counter culture drop out society would certainly have a gap from a structured rules based military. But both are segments of our overall culture and country. Basically the military and individual soldiers, etc are part of society somewhere in our country, hence no gap.

Basically I call BS on the article and figure someone has to publish or perish, so why not?
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