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Old 08-19-2013, 03:34 AM
 
Location: Virginia
23 posts, read 203,613 times
Reputation: 77

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TerryJ,

You are spot on with your discharge information. Even on this forum and thread. Several have tried their armchair lawyer comments and only achieve to confuse people trying to seek positive straight to the point information.
As far as my type of discharge being inequitable or "fair" in a sense, so to speak. As I previously post and you said. I did finish my first enlistment and did receive a GCM. Any award shows that the soldier is not in a "flagged" status. So for one to receive any award or promotion, the person has to currently be in a Honorable standing. This is the tricky grey area I threw at the VA a dozen times before it finally clicked with someone that got my continuous faxes I was sending their way every single day. The requirment for me to get the GI Bill was to only have served 180 consecutive honorable days of service. Which was VERY easily provable. I attended SFAS a year before my C.M. By attending that, it was proven that I was in a honorable status.

I also managed to keep my VA Loan. The day after I got out of confinement, I went to my old commander and told him I wanted him to sign approval for my VA Loan. Since my appeals process wasn't complete and I didn't have my DD-214 yet. I was with all intents and purposes, still in the military. So with that, he really had no grounds to deny my VA Loan since I was still considered to be Active.

The acting 1SG for the unit that I was last in illegally removed my personal property from the MP Station. He signed a false name on the hand receipt and did who knows what with $7,500+ worth of my property. Only I had authorization to remove that property as it was handed from me to the MP's and recorded as such. Anyone in the military knows full well how hand receipts work. Each time it's transferred, that transfer is recorded. Also, my second day out of confinement, I went to the MP's to sign out my property. They were strangely excited to see me in a way. I had no hard feelings against anyone but my own stupid decision. While we stood there talking about this and that, one of the MP's came and told me that a SFC Ga*** picked it up a week ago. I asked to see the hand reciept and he said that they didn't have one. Ohhh, did the fun begin there. Remind you this was in 2010, I just now, 2013 got compensated for that stuff, and not at equal value. I basically demanded they run the names of all SFC Ga***'s on the base for the past month and their was not record of a SFC Ga***. There was a Pvt G. But no SFC. They finally presented me with a make shift half filled out hand receipt they found with theis mystery SFC on it. Immediately as I looked at it, I grabbed it and handed it to the MPI that I had been talking to. i pointed out the difference in the way the letters were. The SFC flowed naturally and the Ga*** was purposefully faked. you could just tell that as this SFC was about to sign it, they decided to throw down a different name but left the correct rank. I instantly knew it was my old acting 1SG who was a SFC. And he and I butted heads a lot. I didn't like him, he didn't like me, simple enough right. He was that type of NCO that had his little close group and he never sought outside opinion from any other NCO but only his three selects that sucked up to him on a daily basis. I had the feeling that he didn't like me since I wasn't about to bow to him as if he is some self proclaimed God. Sadly some NCO's and Officers get a little rank heavy as they move up the ladder and forget to lead from the front and not the rear.

So this wonderful SFC recently was popped for racial profiling his unit, sexual misconduct, drunk on duty, threatening a CO and apparently the financial guys went after him for wrongfully removing my property but I have yet to hear back from them. I'm going to assume he will not admit to it even tho it's clear and obvious. But it wouldn't hold up in court.

But back to the thread. Kinda went on a little ramble there a bit. I can't help but love it when the worthless NCO's get what is coming to them. KARMA!!!

I recently went to a National Guard recruiter that pulled his command into the mix to see if I could go back in. First do six months in the Guard as the requirement then just simply transfer back into Active Duty. Got info back from him and his CO that they will be more than happy to bring me back in but first I just need to update my RE Code. Not even my discharge.
Simply put... upgrading a discharge is well, pointless. Because any federal application (which is all it really matters to), askes "have you ever received a punitive discharge, even if it was later upgraded to non punitive?". So basically, upgrading the discharge is non sense and a waste of time. In a way. I'm going to just request a change of my RE Code so I can go back in. I'll do my honorable term(s) and get out, or stay in. Then I'm going to go for Law Enforcement which is my passion and drive for as of now.

As you said, I did my first term honorably, One dumb decision that got me a charge ruined everything. Now my "character of service" on my DD-214 says Bad Conduct. This is what irritates me, my entire service was far from Bad Conduct. One stupid decision was Bad Conduct, not my entire service. I really wish the DOD would revise the DD-214's so it doesn't ruin peoples lives.

As I have stated, I have told several employers about my situation. Even if they actually know me and know that I am a good person with good morals. Just mentioning about my discharge, people go wide-eyed and think, oh my god!. it's ridiculous. Mainly because people don't know how the discharges work and are categorized. Mine was larceny (fancy legal term for theft). I took ta-50 gear, that's it.


I am going to try and upgrade my RE Code and discharge but with main focus on the RE Code. So I can go back into the military and get a final discharge of Honorable service. I will still have the BCD floating around in my past, but my current status will prove that my BCD was over kill as far as punishment goes.

While in confinement, there was a guy that smuggled 2 grenades back to the states. He and his family threw one on their farm so they could watch it explode. He gave the other to his friend to sale. Well, his friend ended up selling it to some guys that were part of the Aryan Brotherhood. A joint effort with the Army's CID, Local Police, FBI and DEA did mutiple arrests when they noticed the group was now getting US Military grenades. Long story short, this guy only got 4 months and an OTH. !!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone at the jail obviously shared their story and their sentence. Some of the sex offenders spoke out about their cases. Granted they all tried to down play it as they didn't do anything. They were the outcasts. They knew to stay to themselves as they had no right to speak. I can actually say that even a guy that got convicted of child molestation, with penetration, under 14 years old. Only got 3 months and OTH.
After hearing several of other people stories and how they pretty much got off easy. I was, well, pissed at how I was charged and sentenced.
Another guy embezzled $140,000 from the army and only got 4 months and return to duty with reduction of rank x1.

I know I shouldn't bring up other soldiers cases into the mix with my review of discharge. But after learning about how unfair the UCMJ court martials are, I can't resist.

Sorry this rant was a bit long. But I started this thread based on my experience, and this is just a bit more to it.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:43 AM
 
Location: Virginia
23 posts, read 203,613 times
Reputation: 77
Yes, the very day after I was released from confinement. I went to my old Commander and had him approve my VA Loan request.

He basically had to since I was legally still an Active Duty soldier.


Since I didn't run into any hurdle whatsoever with getting the VA Loan. I don't know what the actual requirements were/are for it. Now that I have it, and have used it to buy my house. It's here for me, for the rest of my life. As long as I keep passing it along to the next house or property I buy later.

I would assume their requirements aren't much different that everything else VA related. And as that goes. Congress is constantly changing what the VA can and cannot have it seems like on an hourly basis.


As with the TSA. The VA should be privately run, and not run by the Govt. Politicians tend to try to fill their pockets before giving a little change to those that need it.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:44 AM
 
Location: Virginia
23 posts, read 203,613 times
Reputation: 77
Did you actually submit your request or are you just searching for that first step?
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:47 AM
 
Location: Virginia
23 posts, read 203,613 times
Reputation: 77
True. But I'm just trying to give a base line for starting that wonderful adventure of convincing the VA that all because the DD-214 doesn't say Honorable, that it doesn't mean your the most horrible creature that walks the earth.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:56 AM
 
Location: Virginia
23 posts, read 203,613 times
Reputation: 77
Your right and wrong. Not really wrong but a bit off, just a bit.

I did convince the VA folks about how a soldier MUST be in a Honorable status to recieve ANY award, promotion, transfer, school, and so forth.

By submitting my last "proof' of honorable service. Which was my unit giving me an AAM for attending the SFAS course (Special Forces Assessment & Selection). That in itself proved that from my enlistment date up to the AAM award was honorable. Since you can't recieve awards if you are flagged for any reason.

It's a grey area that people just gotta pound into the VA. Gotta remember some of the VA folks aren't prior service. They might be 100% pro military support. But when it comes down to the finer details of how all the gears work. They only know what they have learned and some of what they have heard of. Which isn't every single detail of the military's inner workings of how things are done.

And yes, any training prior to the soldiers first duty station does not count towards their actual service. Which is why some people get confused when their contracts read 4 years and 30 weeks (30 weeks of training, 4 years of actual service) (example of course).
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:19 AM
 
Location: Virginia
23 posts, read 203,613 times
Reputation: 77
Juelz715,

Sadly I'm going to give you rough news. He is going to have, I'll be honest .01% chance of upgrading it immediately. Too many people try this and fail every time.

Unless his trial had an actual legal fault to it. He really has no hope for an immediate upgrade. I'm not going to be soft hearted and lead you a stray with false hope as some do. This is not the time or situation to receive false information.

If you have ever noticed on some state and federal applications. They ask if you have basically ever been in trouble. If the "trouble" was within the past 5 years, please close application and wait until 5 years have passed. What they want to see is. Was this "trouble" an isolated incident. Such as a person is late for work one day. The old saying applies: You late once, it's an accident. Late a second time, it's a coincidence. Late a third or more, it's a pattern of being irresponsible for ones self.

If he gets out and does great and wonderful things with himself, with proof. He should go ahead and give it a shot after about 2 or three years. Five years is a general rule of thumb that some people drastically change from their five year older ways. If your husband even gets into any type of trouble during that time frame, it will tarnish his image and make it look like a pattern of misconduct. And when I said do great and wonderful things. I don't just mean, Oh he got a decent job making x amount of money, he is a good husband at home and blah blah blah. I'm talking about getting out their and doing actual positive things. Attend local Police Department functions. Even sign up for some ride-a-longs with their police department. Volunteer with this and that.

If he is or is not religious. Please, just for respect's sake, don't do the whole "I found Jesus" bit. The board members see this all the time, Judges see it, Parole Officers see. It's WELL known that people try to use that line for some sort of sympathy. I'm religious and christian and all but I'm not going to throw it around as a crutch and as a sob story/line.

I hope my being straightforward and to the point isn't too much.
Just trying to keep everything on here fact and not in some fantasy hopes and dreams world.
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Old 10-20-2013, 08:42 PM
 
1 posts, read 5,202 times
Reputation: 10
I was just watching a show on Latinos in the military history and as I was also found guilty of a charge that ended my military career when I was a young man over 25 years ago I have been working excellent jobs and finished my Bachelors Degree in Security Management. I wrote some checks in my first bank account with no prior knowledge or training on how to use the account I quickly found myself being Court Martial ed for offenses that in civilian life may have given me a fine. I plead guilty as I was advised to do so by my JAG appointed Attorney. I was sentenced to one year and a day and did six months in minimum security and reduced to an E-1. I served around seven years before getting arrested for the checks and had received two Good Conduct Medals, a Army Achievement Medal, completed PLDC and was an E-4 promotable and had been to the board.
I did my time and have been an outstanding citizen who has worked hard, payed taxes, and continued to improve my education without ever asking for anything from the government or the Army.

I was surprised to see your post and at the age of 49 soon to be fifty I applied for a Concealed Weapons License so that I could apply for Law-Enforcement or Government job with Homeland Security I had gone to purchase the weapon and the store owner called and did all the checks and after a three day waiting period I was called to pick up my weapon. I went through the CWL Class and submitted the application that was denied with no real explanation, they could not find my records because of a major fire in a records warehouse back n the 90's.
I am working as an Investigator for a law firm where I have been for ten years and would like to enjoy all of my benefits as a veteran which I criteria I meet and surpass according to the GI Bill Law I was discharged with a BCD in 1987 pre-911 GI Bill
I understand that there will be those who only see the discharge that I was given and would not begin to understand the love I have and had for my country and The United State's Army. This was my career and I never intended to commit a crime. I was a young man with a basic understanding of a bank account and paid the price and did my time. So if anyone is willing to assist me in obtaining my benefits I would be in debt as a brother who served and loved every minute of my service time.
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,833 posts, read 4,022,287 times
Reputation: 2997
Holy crap, they gave you a BCD for TA-50 gear, geez, how many set of these did you take off with. When I was in, many years ago, I knew a few guys a Ft. Carson that sold parts of their TA-50. Nothing happened to them.
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:25 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,129 posts, read 38,859,608 times
Reputation: 28092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
Holy crap, they gave you a BCD for TA-50 gear, geez, how many set of these did you take off with.
I hope you don't believe everything you read on the internet. There are always at least two sides to a story...
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:57 PM
 
2 posts, read 9,010 times
Reputation: 10
I read you can't use the GI Bill when you have a BCD, but you can still apply for FAFSA. Here is the text a website titled: "FinAid/Military Aid/Veterans Status for Student Aid Purposes":

"The definition of veteran for Federal student aid purposes is not necessarily the same as the definition of veteran for VA purposes. This can lead to potential problems, since the FAFSA processor performs a data match with Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) records to confirm a student's veteran status.

Section 480(d)(3) of the HEA indicates that a student is considered to be an independent student if he or she is a veteran of the US Armed Forces, which is defined in Section 480(c)(1) to mean any individual who:

- has engaged in the active duty in the United States Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, or Coast Guard; and
- was released under a condition other than dishonorable.


Section 8019 of the Higher Education Reconciliation Act of 2005 (P.L. 109-171) changed the definition of independent student to also include members of the Armed Forces serving on active duty for other than training purposes. HERA 2005 also defined active duty to exclude attendance at a service school.


Independent students do not need to report their parents' financial information on the FAFSA.

There is no minimum amount of service required, so long as it was on active duty. A single day of service is considered sufficient, so long as the individual was released under a condition other than dishonorable."


It went on to say:

"There are only six possible entries for "Character of Service" on the DD214: "Honorable"; "Under Honorable Conditions (General)"[*]"Under Other Than Honorable Conditions"[*]"Bad Conduct"[*]"Dishonorable"[*]"Uncharacterized"

Only a "Dishonorable" discharge has relevance to independent student status. Although "Under Other Than Honorable Conditions" and "Bad Conduct" are both considered to be less than honorable discharges, they are less severe than a "Dishonorable" discharge. An individual receiving a discharge of "Under Other Than Honorable Conditions" after serving under activity duty status would be considered a veteran for Federal student aid purposes and hence an independent student. Although his or her discharge was less than honorable, it was not dishonorable. Less than honorable discharges can occur for improper conduct (e.g., desertion, AWOL), conviction of a crime in military or civilian court (e.g., treason, sabotage, espionage, murder, rape, arson, robbery, burglary, kidnapping, assault with intent to kill, assault with a deadly weapon, or attempting to commit any of these crimes), or some other inappropriate action (e.g., fraudulent entry, conscientious objector). Nevertheless, only a dishonorable discharge prevents a student from being considered a veteran for Federal student aid purposes. A student with one of the other less-than-honorable discharges is still considered a veteran.
College financial aid personnel occasionally get confused when they see a character of service of "Under Other Than Honorable Conditions". You need to emphasize to them that this is not the same as dishonorable, and that you are still considered a veteran for Federal student aid purposes."



(Please note the state of Pennsylvania has stricter eligibility rules).



I guess I'll get to my question: Has anyone here who has a BCD applied and received FAFSA for college?
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