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Old 10-13-2013, 04:39 PM
 
1,405 posts, read 2,147,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bznavyveteran View Post
#1 disappointment is that military pay is so low that some members have to receive food stamps to survive.
I strongly disagree.

The only people I've ever seen this happen to are the E-1's to E-3's who have multiple kids and a stay at home spouse. They made the decision to have kids. When you consider they get free medical, job training, a career path with promotions, BAS, and housing. They're much better off than anywhere else they could be.
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Old 10-13-2013, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
2,633 posts, read 4,391,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bznavyveteran View Post
#1 disappointment is that military pay is so low that some members have to receive food stamps to survive.
Get real. Food stamps are based on total income and size of family. Military pay is NOT so low that a junior enlisted Soldier with a spouse, no children, is on food stamps.

Recent non-military high school graduates working at an average job who decide to go out and have 4-5 children are on food stamps, too. And nobody gives them a free house in the bargain. It's about making responsible choices.
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Old 10-13-2013, 04:49 PM
 
10,380 posts, read 7,467,722 times
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The economy sucks on the outside right now NO DOUBT. Sad that's the norm these days.
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Old 10-13-2013, 06:38 PM
 
5,470 posts, read 8,160,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post

Officer pay is higher due to the aspect of the job. They have much more responsibility and have a pretty high barrier to entry (look at the stats to get into the academy/ROTC/OCS). Plus, no Officer or elected official would vote to cut O pay.

.
We will have to agree to disagree.

And I found ROTC to be very easy.

As to no votes to reduce O pay... It would be simple to stall it while increasing enlisted pay.
But it goes further than that... It's the overall drastically different treatment of the O & E ranks. Pay is just one easy to point out different.

That's another topic however.
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Old 10-13-2013, 06:47 PM
 
12,627 posts, read 12,065,272 times
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I also forgot to add sign up and reenlistment bonuses for those who qualify as another perk.
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:00 PM
 
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In the private sector, a business can close down almost instantly with no notice to employees. In the military, whether an individual or an entire unit, there is a lot of notice of what is coming. You have opportunity to get prepared somewhat.

Officers are paid very well. The problem is not the pay, it is there are way too many of them especially at the field grade and flag ranks. Cut half of that crowd and put it the money to other uses.

The military offers a clear path on performance for promotion. Promotion is not guaranteed, but you can know the system, the rules etc.

In the military, unlike a lot of the private sector, there are means to complain about mistreatment albeit it isn't perfect by any means as evidenced by the sexual harassment stuff though I do wonder about the accuracy of the numbers involved or the truth of some of the accusations.

Only base pay is taxed. Allowances such as BAH, subsistence etc. are not taxed as income thus increasing the value of your money.

I've known many who got out believing things would be so much better in the private world only to find out it wasn't and in some cases they were lied to about some job waiting on them. Often people left because of a spouse that wanted to be home. Wound up divorcing anyway.

It is difficult to make 20 years and a pension, but if you can do it, for the average guy or gal, you cannot beat it.
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
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I never felt poor, even at $57 a month or supporting a family on $128. I was doing what I wanted to do. I couldn't hack civilian jobs
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:56 PM
 
1,405 posts, read 2,147,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
We will have to agree to disagree.
About what?

You can't honestly say that Officers don't have much more responsibility. It's just the reality of the military structure. A platoon leader or DIVO has more responsibility compared to a squad leader. Similarly, a CO has more responsibility compared to the Senior Enlisted Leader.
Quote:
And I found ROTC to be very easy.
ROTC is only part of the equation. You still have to graduate college with a certain GPA and required classes. That's a lot more than having a HS diploma and getting over 30 on the ASVAB.

I remember from another thread you saying that you quit ROTC after a year. You can't really make a valid comparison if you've only completed one year of a four year program.

Quote:
As to no votes to reduce O pay... It would be simple to stall it while increasing enlisted pay.
But it goes further than that... It's the overall drastically different treatment of the O & E ranks. Pay is just one easy to point out different.
You have to remember that the overwhelming majority of law makers and presidents were Officers. There's no chance they would ever pass an appropriation raising enlisted pay and freezing O pay.

Officer and enlisted ranks are treated differently for good reason. Officers are paid to be the leaders and are ultimately responsible for the people and equipment in their command.

Last edited by Pyramidsurf; 10-13-2013 at 09:43 PM..
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Old 10-13-2013, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,334,463 times
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My fiance is an E-7, and really enjoys what he does and feels he is paid fairly. He's in the Navy and likes the culture of being a Chief. He enlisted after working through his twenties as an inner city school teacher. It's all in perspective, I suppose, and he's done the civilian end of things as well.
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:04 AM
 
175 posts, read 261,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
About what?

You can't honestly say that Officers don't have much more responsibility. It's just the reality of the military structure. A platoon leader or DIVO has more responsibility compared to a squad leader. Similarly, a CO has more responsibility compared to the Senior Enlisted Leader.

ROTC is only part of the equation. You still have to graduate college with a certain GPA and required classes. That's a lot more than having a HS diploma and getting over 30 on the ASVAB.

Officer and enlisted ranks are treated differently for good reason. Officers are paid to be the leaders and are ultimately responsible for the people and equipment in their command.
When it comes to responsibility I'd say it depends on the individual Officer and the individual Enlisted person and what they ultimately do each day as well as how we're regarding responsibility. I've seen my share of lazy Officers who close themselves off in their offices and leave all the actual managing to the Enlisted guys only peeking out to give occasional pep-talks. Those Officers will handle a good deal of paperwork but I've seen those same guys constantly asking the Enlisted guys to update them on what's even going on with the troops because they have no clue and they need that info to even write up those reports in the first place. I'm not saying all Officers are like that, I've seen a good number of them who know their Soldiers just as well as the Enlisted guys and who effectively manage both the paperwork side as well as getting out there among the troops too. But painting them with a broad brush as if all Officers are capably handling more overall responsibility than Enlisted is just closing your eyes to those Officers who rather leave the brunt of it to the Enlisted. I know my last Commander would have been completely lost without my 1SG helping him along day in and day out. Most of my last PLs were good except one who was outperformed by 1st year PVTs.

The other part I mentioned was in how we're regarding responsibility. I knew Officers who not only planned the missions while we were overseas but also went out on every patrol they were able to and so they ultimately held the majority of responsibility while outside the wire for what happened whether it was taking responsibility for a call made or making sure everyone came back alive. However, there were also the Officers who planned the missions but never went outside the wire so the Squads that were out there often had to move outside of the mission planning due to outside circumstances such as being attacked or other things that required reactions that couldn't be pre-planned. In those cases, I'd say the bulk of responsibility fell on the Enlisted due to them being the only ones out there in it needing to make the snap decisions and having to be prepared to deal with any potential fallout. Those Officers who never left the wire with their troops and just hung back waiting to hear how the mission went from the relative safety inside our outpost's walls couldn't possibly feel the same level of responsibility of those Enlisted who knew their decisions while out on the mission could mean the difference between everyone coming home or not.

Basic enlisting is getting a certain overall score on the ASVAB but it's the GT scores that really matter when it comes to jobs and there are some Enlisted jobs out there that are a lot more picky when it comes to that and ALSO require a lot more than just the basic standard. Also there are A LOT of Enlisted who have degrees with high GPAs who decide to come into the Army Enlisted rather than as Officers as well as the many Enlisted who have earned their degree while in the service so I'd agree with the person who said some of the separation does seem to be a little archaic in the sense that there isn't as big of an education gap (and for quite a few there isn't any gap at all) nowadays between Officer and Enlisted as there was say 15 plus years ago.
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