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Old 02-14-2015, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,755 posts, read 47,594,768 times
Reputation: 17638

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
I don't know about anyone else, but I would have done my time for half the pay. The benefits alone make serving worth it.
Hmm. I am not sure about that one.

I try to avoid looking at total compensation, I just normally focus on actual 'cash-on-the-barrelhead' or 'money-in-my-fist' take home pay.

If I was earning only 50% of what I did earn, then as an E5, I would not have likely been able to start buying apartment buildings. At only 50% pay, I would not have been able to amass an assortment of rental properties as my investment portfolio.

The benefits are good. I really like the pension that allows me to support my family today, without need for a second career.

But I am not sure if I would have done it, at half-pay.
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Old 02-14-2015, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,755 posts, read 47,594,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
You probably are not accounting for maintenance/repair cost or opportunity cost of down payment and time spent on the property.
Hmm, having owned four such properties, I think that maybe I have some basis of how they work.

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Old 02-14-2015, 03:18 PM
 
1,162 posts, read 1,272,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBTRS View Post
It includes his base pay of $1938.00, his BAH of $1419.00 and his $50 sea pay. = $40,884. Is there something else you'd like to throw in there that he doesn't get like you've been doing?

Again, that is what he is making today...not what he was making while on deployment. Also, it is odd how you are only counting 13 hours a day while deployed for 10 months. Surely you would count 24 hours a day since he is ordered away from home, on a ship and on duty 24 hours a day seven days a week??? How you can only count 13 hours a day for a deployed servicemember is ridiculous.

Since you're wanting to add all these tax advantages and other nonsense why are you not figuring in the overtime he isn't making that he would be working those hours as a civilian, the money a civilian employer would have to pay for food and lodging if they sent an employee away from home on business for 10 months, etc. You're wanting to play the numbers in your favor and ignore everything a civilian would get in similar circumstances.
BAS for a start, even if they take it back, he is fed in exchange. He gets a clothing allowance as well, those surely meet your definitions of compensation.

13 hours a day is the time he's working, plain and simple. We're talking hours worked/compensation earned).

Civilians that are salary don't get overtime either Chief, for a quick example take a gander at MSC.

Now why do I factor in retirement?

Well, there are a few career fields that do pay less than market, and one of my friends is in one of those fields.

She's an anesthesiologist, and wanted to know if she should get out at the end of her 10 year contract. If she got out she'd make an extra annual $160,000-$250,000 on the outside. That's a ten year gap of $1.8 million. So it seems like getting out is a sure thing, but then she'd lose out on retirement of 66k/yr for 35 years. At a discount rate of 2% (govt is good as gold right?) she'd be giving up $2,357,788 in NPV to earn $1.8 million, so leaving would be a bad financial decision.

But you'd have us believe that deferred compensation has no value, or that she shouldn't consider the very valuable tax breaks of BAH and BAS.
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,555 posts, read 8,043,799 times
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He gets a uniform allowance and that is to purchase military uniforms that he is required to wear. It isn't compensation. They don't "take back" BAS, he doesn't get it in the first place. Sure he can eat on the ship but he isn't living on the ship so he never does while in port. Feeding the troops, housing the troops, providing for their health care, providing military uniforms, isn't "compensation" it is required of a government to operate a standing army. A service member would not be able to feed themselves, house themselves, get healthcare or get military uniforms while deployed that is why the government must do it. It isn't compensation to the member, it is a requirement of the government to have a deployable force.

I will be the first to admit that health care and housing for a family member is compensation.

Front line civilian employees (similar to junior military member) are not exempt employees and would not draw a salary. They are non-exempt hourly employees entitled to overtime. Maybe you've not heard of the FLSA?

Deployed service members are working 24/7. They are never "off the clock". Are you sure you were actually in the navy and deployed on a naval vessel?

No one said anything about having no value, you keep changing things to attempt to make an argument. It having value to a few individuals doesn't make it compensation for the current service of all military members. There are many things that "have value" but that doesn't' make it compensation...seeing a sunset from a deployed navy ship has value, working with some highly skilled and talented people has value, doing a cool and exciting job has value, finding an open toilet in a 200 man berthing has value, getting the only apple that is not rotten on the mess decks has value...none of these things of "value" are actually compensation though.

Last edited by LBTRS; 02-14-2015 at 04:43 PM..
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:16 PM
 
1,424 posts, read 2,160,512 times
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I don't know if I'd say a clothing allowance isn't compensation. As an Officer I didn't get an allowance and I was still required to wear the uniform. I have to wear a shirt and tie at my civilian job and it's on me to purchase.

And to play devil's advocate, my second job out of the Navy paid 42199 per year as a gs7. It required a finance degree and I had much much more responsibility than an e1. Granted, I didn't have to deploy and could quit at anytime. But, when a married e1 makes as much entry level college grads can we really claim they're hurting for money?
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,555 posts, read 8,043,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
I don't know if I'd say a clothing allowance isn't compensation. As an Officer I didn't get an allowance and I was still required to wear the uniform. I have to wear a shirt and tie at my civilian job and it's on me to purchase.

And to play devil's advocate, my second job out of the Navy paid 42199 per year as a gs7. It required a finance degree and I had much much more responsibility than an e1. Granted, I didn't have to deploy and could quit at anytime. But, when a married e1 makes as much entry level college grads can we really claim they're hurting for money?
Then shame on you...come to Phoenix and apply for one of the many jobs I have that pay higher that that and don't require a finance degree. I just hired a Business Office Manager two weeks ago, no degree required and it pays $60k.

I think you're selling yourself short if you feel the only job you're qualified for with your finance degree is a piddly GS7 government job. I wasn't an officer and I received offers for a GS12 job and a state job that paid double what you started at. I ultimately decided I wanted to get away from the government and be part of the private sector so I took my current job.

You need to get off the government dole and you'll discover there is much more money to be made in the private sector. It will also change your view of things as what you post here is mind boggling sometimes.
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:35 PM
 
1,424 posts, read 2,160,512 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBTRS View Post
Then shame on you...come to Phoenix and apply for one of the many jobs I have that pay higher that that and don't require a finance degree. I just hired a Business Office Manager two weeks ago, no degree required and it pays $60k.

I think you're selling yourself short if you feel the only job you're qualified for with your finance degree is a piddly GS7 government job. I wasn't an officer and I received offers for a GS12 job and a state job that paid double what you started at. I ultimately decided I wanted to get away from the government and be part of the private sector so I took my current job.

You need to get off the government dole and you'll discover there is much more money to be made in the private sector. It will also change your view of things as what you post here is mind boggling sometimes.
I worked in finance consulting before the government. I missed public service so I decided to go back. I'm no longer a gs7, it was only for the first year because it was a structured leader development program. It was one of those take it or leave type of offers.

I'm sure there's more money to be made but I love my job. I go to work everyday with a smile on my face. You can't buy happiness or job satisfaction. I work in budget and acquisitions. I'm directly involved in the federal budget process and procuring important programs. I feel like I can make a difference, or at least I try to. I just didn't have that in the private sector.
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,755 posts, read 47,594,768 times
Reputation: 17638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
I don't know if I'd say a clothing allowance isn't compensation. As an Officer I didn't get an allowance and I was still required to wear the uniform. I have to wear a shirt and tie at my civilian job and it's on me to purchase.
I am on the fence about uniform allowances also. I was spent more on uniforms than my uniform allowance paid. There was always out-of-pocket expenses every year to maintain uniforms. Fortunately it is a tax write-off.



Quote:
... when a married e1 makes as much entry level college grads can we really claim they're hurting for money?
No 'we' can't.
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