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Old 10-14-2013, 02:00 PM
 
175 posts, read 261,448 times
Reputation: 134

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
On topic, I DO believe the military is underpaid, and that the bonuses and compensation are appropriate. I also believe more should be done for the E-1 through E-5 and O-1/W-1 through O-3/W-3 levels.
I enlisted in my late 20s. I have a degree but I liked what I researched about how I would go about doing my job on the Enlisted side more than the Officer side which is why I chose to go enlisted (and stay that way). I came in with a lot of debt, the grand majority of it being school loans. Unfortunately they're considered private so they don't fall under the Student Loan Repayment Program. I had to get a car because I wasn't able to get all the places needed for work without one (I definitely tried for the first year and it didn't work out very well). I pretty much live on just the base pay so while I don't have to live on food stamps by any means, I DO live paycheck to paycheck. I made more for the hours I put in on the civilian side, I just wasn't happy enough with what I was doing there. I'm currently getting ready for my next deployment and that pay will hopefully help me get rid of some of my bills. Then when I get back I'm hopefully going into a training program for something that will get me Jump pay, language pay (maybe), faster promotion, and maybe even more deployment opportunities so I'm crossing my fingers for not only the opportunities/experiences the job would bring but also all that extra money that will help me actually make a real dent in my bills instead of just making ends meet.

I'm an E-5 but unmarried with no kids so obviously I don't qualify for BAH. While it sucks to be stuck in the barracks, they're not as bad as they used to be from what people have told me. I just wish I could collect BAH because I know a lot of people who are able to pocket some of that extra money from that. I also don't get BAS because I have a meal card but it's very rare that I actually eat at the DFACs if I'm not in the field so that kind of sucks too because that means the food I do eat comes out of my base pay instead. I hope the DFAC is putting the BAS I'm putting towards it without actually benefiting from minus the field problems (which are more often than not MREs instead of hot meals anyway) to good use but I doubt it. I think the whole DFAC and Enlisted living in the barracks having to eat there even while in garrison if they don't want to use their base pay for food is kind of an archaic practice but what do I know.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Bangkok, NYC, and LV
2,037 posts, read 2,451,535 times
Reputation: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
I'll ignore that as I raise a glass to Steve Phyllis, KIA 1991. A close friend. SAM loss. I agree that the grunt is underpaid (BTW, I have been a front-line ALO as well in my career), but I guess the same can be said of a beat cop in South Central or a Border Patrol agent (I work with someone who did both as well as was a CCT in the USAF).

As for running a business, an O-6 who screws up usually loses his command, seen it several times. A CEO who runs his company into the ground often receives a generous severance package and is hired somewhere else. Now, my business I did wasn't just administering... as commander it was my decisions that affected the wing's success or failure. True, within the guidance of the NAF and MAJCOM and of course the national command authorities, but most equivalent businesses are organized similarly, at the level of authority I possessed and executed.

On topic, I DO believe the military is underpaid, and that the bonuses and compensation are appropriate. I also believe more should be done for the E-1 through E-5 and O-1/W-1 through O-3/W-3 levels.
I never ran a business or commanded 2500 men. I guess you were a Wing Commander in USAF. I don't speak about things which are beyond my purview...i was just a jr enlisted guy for four years...

I meant no offense Sir, I think you are a bit older. When i think of the AF pilots now, I recall aviators who don't really have to deal with staunch threats when downrange....Afgahns don't have anything that can take out a fast mover.

Yes, you get relieved if you screw up as an 0-6..maybe, I read a few Tom Ricks books and more than a few brigade commanders were screwing up in Iraq and by the time it was known they were out of country for a year or so...but you get a job as a liaison officer or coordinator at a HQ.

This is one thing that i do not really understand, just because it's so far above most of us, is that there are commanders of men and desk officers...A Col is a Col to me, but I think the staff officer jobs at ISAF HQ could be done--functionally--by an 0-3.

As to pay: nobody is paid to little or too much...you are paid what the market dictates. if you want to earn more you are free to try; if you prefer, stability, camaraderie, and sense of purpose then you accept the non-monetary compensation in lieu of the extra coin each month.

I think that in this day and age, finding a steady job with benefits where you can retire at 40 is very rare....I think the military is not a bad gig...neither is being a cop....those dudes in big cities have little education and can make six figures with overtime....and its fun...
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:57 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,138 posts, read 38,895,616 times
Reputation: 28114
Folks, lets please stay on topic or close to the topic "Military is Underpaid Myth..." in this case.

Also, I will not tolerate the bashing, obscene comments and other innuendo which some try to bring to this forum...

Thanks in advance...
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,818 posts, read 39,375,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky_double_d View Post
I enlisted in my late 20s. I have a degree but I liked what I researched about how I would go about doing my job on the Enlisted side more than the Officer side which is why I chose to go enlisted (and stay that way).
This was the case for my fiance, as well.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:38 AM
 
Location: :~)
1,483 posts, read 2,824,784 times
Reputation: 1519
The OP's underpaid statement frustrates me and causes me to grind my teeth.

I will answer the question. Yes, Pay is alot better now than when I was in. Though I am not in now, I do play in a differant suit today, I can verify that these troops hump it. We have to remember that this is 24/7 job. There are some who earn better pay because their job is 40/5, so these specific position per hour rate improves for those personnel. But, if we take that same annual pay/benefits and spread that across 24/7 position, I would guess the per hour rate drops down below civilian pay charts.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:52 AM
 
374 posts, read 665,502 times
Reputation: 208
Can recall a similar thread just a few months ago. My Son is a SSgt (E-5) Air Force . Seen the LES. Only eats beans when he wants to.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:09 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
2,633 posts, read 4,396,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbub22 View Post
The OP's underpaid statement frustrates me and causes me to grind my teeth.

I will answer the question. Yes, Pay is alot better now than when I was in. Though I am not in now, I do play in a differant suit today, I can verify that these troops hump it. We have to remember that this is 24/7 job. There are some who earn better pay because their job is 40/5, so these specific position per hour rate improves for those personnel. But, if we take that same annual pay/benefits and spread that across 24/7 position, I would guess the per hour rate drops down below civilian pay charts.
Soldiers stopped sleeping? Soldiers stopped taking lunch? Soldiers stopped doing PT, showering? Soldiers stopped doing laundry? Soldiers stopped going to the PX? Soldiers stopped with the medical appointments during duty hours?

24/7 is a dangerous thing to throw in there. In a combat zone, it's fair to say on an outpost you're probably WAY more than normal. But I invite you to pull up the movie Restrepo and ask you a rhetorical question: were those guys, in heavy combat, working 24/7? In garrison, for sure, they're not.
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:41 AM
 
3,442 posts, read 4,473,937 times
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The reason I think the military underpays is they expect an 18 year old to sign a 6 year binding contract before he even experiences his first day on the job.

Just because the military can find enough 18 year olds to do it, doesn't mean I believe the pay is high enough.

The military touts the benefits of a career, but the fact is the majority do not make it a career.

I would like to see the military offer a 2 year enlistment where the young enlistee can get a taste of military life, then decide if it was for him.

( I certainly wouldn't expect the military to be giving him 2 years of schooling before he made his decision )
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:14 AM
 
8,865 posts, read 7,343,917 times
Reputation: 11795
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant View Post
Soldiers stopped sleeping? Soldiers stopped taking lunch? Soldiers stopped doing PT, showering? Soldiers stopped doing laundry? Soldiers stopped going to the PX? Soldiers stopped with the medical appointments during duty hours?

24/7 is a dangerous thing to throw in there. In a combat zone, it's fair to say on an outpost you're probably WAY more than normal. But I invite you to pull up the movie Restrepo and ask you a rhetorical question: were those guys, in heavy combat, working 24/7? In garrison, for sure, they're not.
True, no one can "work" 24 hours a day for 7 days a week. However, when sailors are on a ship at sea, they are on the job for 6 months straight. Depending on the job rating, some sailors literally put in 12 to 18 hour work days, whether in war or peace. Everyone on the ship is "on call" to be ready for action at a moment's notice. When there's a major fire or combat situation, it's "general quarters" and everyone must respond. Though some shore duty work falls under OSHA regulations, OSHA doesn't exist on ships. We live and work in conditions that are in total violation of not only OSHA regulations, but also living conditions required for people in American prison systems. When an employer sets pay levels, it's based upon supply and demand. While surveys compare the civilian technical job to a related military technical job, the survey ignores the fact that a civilian technical job is on land, in very low risk environment, and employees have the benefit of work place safety regulated by OSHA and having the ability to go home at the end of the day with weekend and holidays off. Military service members serving at sea or in the field of combat work in a very high risk environment, does not have the benefit of work place safety regulated by OSHA, and does not have the ability to go home at the end of the day and have weekends and holidays off. Even when there's a holiday celebration like Thanksgiving or Christmas, it's still a workday for us when at sea or in the field of combat. Because of this, a civilian company would have to pay more than double our military pay to attract employees willing to put themselves in danger and spend 6 months to a year away from home and family. For those service members who spend their entire time in the military stateside working 40 hour work weeks, yes, their pay is close to civilian pay when including benefits like medical, dental, vision, uniform allowance, food (base cafeteria was very affordable if you had to pay for the meal), housing (some barracks are like an apartment or college dorm room), and recreation (gyms, golf, ball parks, swimming pools, and other facilities). Most ship board Navy sailors cringe every time those pay surveys come out because we never saw our technical jobs compared to our hours, danger, and time from home.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:44 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,138 posts, read 38,895,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy52 View Post
The reason I think the military underpays is they expect an 18 year old to sign a 6 year binding contract before he even experiences his first day on the job.
Everyone who enlists in the United States Military, active duty or National Guard/Reserves incurs a minimum eight-year service obligation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy52 View Post
I would like to see the military offer a 2 year enlistment where the young enlistee can get a taste of military life, then decide if it was for him.
[*] That existed at one time. And still exists I believe:

FORT KNOX, Ky. (Army News Service, May 31, 2007) - The U.S. Army Recruiting Command introduced two new enlistment incentives yesterday.

A bonus of up to $51,864 is available to recruits signing up for a two-year enlistment in more than 45 active-Army military occupational specialties.
ENTIRE ARTICLE: Army Introduces New Two-Year Enlistment Bonus, Raises Three-Year Bonus | Article | The United States Army



[*] But the added costs for training now really doesn't make it financially feasible for all services and jobs. "The military winds up discharging more than 1,200 enlistees because of weight problems, the report said.“The military must then recruit and train their replacements at a cost of $50,000 for each man or woman, thus spending more than $60 million a year,” " Basic training gets an overhaul - Jen DiMascio - POLITICO.com



[*] There is also the "National Call to Service program" : Welcome to the GI Bill Web Site | The Home for All Educational Benefits Provided by the Department of Veterans Affairs which has a variety of options.



[*] And then there is the "no option"... You do not have to serve your country if you do not want to...




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