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Old 04-01-2018, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Midwest
3,278 posts, read 6,478,208 times
Reputation: 4514

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPRetired View Post
This may seem like a silly question, But I've recently been debating others, both military retirees as well as non-military who feel that a) the defined benefit plan that military members get after 20 years is unfair and a burden on society and b) we should be paying FAR more for our Tricare benefits.

I enlisted in 1991 and decided at some point along the way to make it a career. I didn't intend to at the start of my initial enlistment but military life kind of grew on me (like a fungus?) At any rate, at about year 10 came the make-or-break decision to go indef. Of course anyone who puts in a full 20, especially in line units, is essentially giving the people of the United States the best years of their life with regards to health.

I've heard all the arguments, that the exchange and commissary benefits give us an unfair advantage. I've heard that the military retirement was never intended to be the sole means of income for a military retiree. And recently I've begun to hear from some people that it should be acceptable to renegotiate the terms of our retirement after the fact and reduce our overly generous retirement benefits, and scale them down to something more along the lines of what our civilian counterparts get.

When presented with the facts that military members don't receive overtime, or shift differential pay, can't fluff their retirement in the final years by working massive amounts of overtime and don't have their food and housing allowances included in the computation of their retirement, all seems to go silent and I'm redirected to the old line of "You should have known that nothing is guaranteed, yada yada yada".

Maybe I'm being hard headed and not seeing things clearly. Do we have an unfair advantage over the rest of the Americans who actually get a pension? I'm willing to accept that a defined contribution plan may be the best way going forward. Of course this would require the DOD to overhaul the compensation system as a whole, but for those of us who have already done our part and retired, are we being too demanding of our country? I ask that seriously because as I stated earlier, there are quite a few people I've spoken with, including a retired Officer, who seem to think that we are grossly overcompensated in retirement. Thoughts?
Putting your life on the line daily for 20+ years and then getting a decent pension and medical plan is NOT "unfair."

If you want to look at unfair, look at Lois Lerner's pension, and hundreds or thousands of other fed pensioners who get far bigger bennies than military pensions.

Ditto many police and fire retirement plans in California and other shangra-la-la lands that will eventually bankrupt the cities and the state. 100 grand for a retired cop or fireman or city councilman?

Thank your lucky stars, don't feel guilty, accept the deal you made because it's the deal you made when you joined.
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Old 04-01-2018, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Boston
3,964 posts, read 1,096,742 times
Reputation: 2814
Professional people earn professional pay and benefits. Enlisted people for the most part aren't part of that equation.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,202 posts, read 46,388,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
Professional people earn professional pay and benefits. Enlisted people for the most part aren't part of that equation.
In my community, there is an additional pay that many get called 'Professional Pay' or simply 'pro-pay'. It is mostly the nucs who get it.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:53 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
23,550 posts, read 37,561,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
Professional people earn professional pay and benefits. Enlisted people for the most part aren't part of that equation.
Army Enlisted Soldiers can draw Special duty pay in jobs that demand extra responsibility or extraordinary effort. Examples of these jobs include parachuting instructors, fuel specialists and combat controllers. Monthly amounts range from $75 to $450.

Army Enlisted Soldiers can draw Hardship duty pay for assignments to locations where living conditions are substantially below conditions in the continental United States. Soldiers who serve 30 or more days in a designated hardship area receive $50, $100 or $150 per month, depending on the area.

Army Enlisted Soldiers earn up to $1,000 per month to active duty Soldiers and offers a $6,000 per year bonus for qualified Army Reserve Soldiers who have been certified within the past 12 months to be proficient in a foreign language critical to the military and maintain their ability to read, speak and understand it.

Many career enlisted flyers are eligible for Career Enlisted Flyer Incentive Pay. Non-pilots aboard military aircraft who are not already drawing flight pay qualify for aircrew pay from $150 to $400 a month.

You don't consider U.S. Soldiers professional?
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:29 PM
 
89 posts, read 36,367 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post

You don't consider U.S. Soldiers professional?
The term 'professional' to many civilians means 'job requiring an advanced degree' such as physician, lawyer, maybe accountant. Whereas in the military, basically any service member who is not drafted but rather volunteers, is a "professional solider/sailor etc."
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:44 PM
 
16,765 posts, read 9,121,041 times
Reputation: 15978
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDWill1 View Post
The term 'professional' to many civilians means 'job requiring an advanced degree' such as physician, lawyer, maybe accountant. Whereas in the military, basically any service member who is not drafted but rather volunteers, is a "professional solider/sailor etc."
Best way I'd explain it.
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Old 04-01-2018, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
5,105 posts, read 2,675,194 times
Reputation: 10010
Pro pay, flight pay or whatever else is great while you're in uniform, but when you retire your retirement pay will be the same as that admin guy or supply guy who worked 8 to 5 his entire career and never once set foot in the sand box, rank and time in service being equal.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:45 PM
 
1,348 posts, read 2,048,852 times
Reputation: 1326
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDWill1 View Post
The term 'professional' to many civilians means 'job requiring an advanced degree' such as physician, lawyer, maybe accountant. Whereas in the military, basically any service member who is not drafted but rather volunteers, is a "professional solider/sailor etc."
Pretty much.

Similar to blue collar vs white collar jobs.

The majority of enlisted jobs are what the general public would consider blue collar. When the public says professional jobs they are usually referring to the highly paid professionals such as lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc...
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:55 AM
 
16,765 posts, read 9,121,041 times
Reputation: 15978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
Pretty much.

Similar to blue collar vs white collar jobs.

The majority of enlisted jobs are what the general public would consider blue collar. When the public says professional jobs they are usually referring to the highly paid professionals such as lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc...
That's because their own thinking is limited to "jobs."

The soldier who is making the military a career has gone beyond merely working a "job."

Maybe a line can be draw at a particular rank or at a particular point in the enlisted soldier's professional education, but the career soldier has made it a life profession.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Guam
2,396 posts, read 645,207 times
Reputation: 1020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
That's because their own thinking is limited to "jobs."

The soldier who is making the military a career has gone beyond merely working a "job."

Maybe a line can be draw at a particular rank or at a particular point in the enlisted soldier's professional education, but the career soldier has made it a life profession.
That line has always been becoming an NCO.
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