U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-11-2014, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,189 posts, read 14,057,966 times
Reputation: 18141

Advertisements

The recruiters are often like used car salesman especially when they have quotas. I was in AF basic training and I had my story just like the others. Probably the worst was someone that was guaranteed a specific job, went through basic and they told her that she wouldn't be able to get into it so if she wanted, she could home. She had came in because she had a son with disabilities and needed healthcare for him so her options were limited and she took something just to stay in. I would have to say that the best advice I ever got from a recruiter was when the Army recruiter told me that if I could get into the Air Force, do it! Having been shipped off to Detroit as a young adult, the pressure from the recruiters was unbelievable to just get a signature on the line. Dad told me not to sign the day I went up but to think it through which I did but it was HARD! They use so much pressure, it is their calling. I could never do it but I guess someone has to. On the physical fitness, that's interesting. I was a below average PE student but in 1975, I passed the run as did everyone so I guess times have changed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-11-2014, 08:16 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,182 posts, read 9,221,015 times
Reputation: 4716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voxmusculus View Post
Is this to be expected for civilian officer applicants, as well? Merely curious.

I'm interested in the AF reserve as a civilian, but given that all FY14 boards have been canceled, I cannot help but wonder what are the realistic chances of a civilian outsider with no AF connections.

You can ONLY get a medical job as an officer if you are already a nurse, dentist, doctor. We don't train you. You can't have a business degree and get a job as a nurse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2014, 08:20 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,182 posts, read 9,221,015 times
Reputation: 4716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
I'm sorry. But that is terrible recruiter logic. You don't just apply to a company like Microsoft and hope they give you something. You apply for jobs you're qualified for and meet their requirements. You don't just apply randomly and hope you'll get something.

The military is different because you're signing YOUR LIFE away in return for job training in a field you're qualified for. Saying that you should take what's offered is beyond stupid.

But that is the distinction. You are applying to JOIN THE AIR FORCE. You are not applying for a specific job. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a cop. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a firefighter. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a crew chief. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a lab tech. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not an aerial gunner. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a supply tech. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a job.

No where in the entire process does any form say anything about a specific job. You take an OATH BEFORE you find out what your job will be. Why? Because you are joining the Air Force, not a job. You stand before the Flag, you raise your right hand, and you swear to your GOD that you will serve. You make the commitment... to the Air Force, and only to the Air Force. You don't swear to be a mental health tech. You don't swear to be paralegal. You swear to be an Airman. Nothing else. It is never presented any other way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2014, 08:30 PM
 
36 posts, read 200,028 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
You can ONLY get a medical job as an officer if you are already a nurse, dentist, doctor. We don't train you. You can't have a business degree and get a job as a nurse.
My question was on preferential treatment, not the viability of my switching competencies.

Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2014, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,549 posts, read 8,001,354 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
But that is the distinction. You are applying to JOIN THE AIR FORCE. You are not applying for a specific job. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a cop. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a firefighter. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a crew chief. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a lab tech. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not an aerial gunner. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a supply tech. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a job.

No where in the entire process does any form say anything about a specific job. You take an OATH BEFORE you find out what your job will be. Why? Because you are joining the Air Force, not a job. You stand before the Flag, you raise your right hand, and you swear to your GOD that you will serve. You make the commitment... to the Air Force, and only to the Air Force. You don't swear to be a mental health tech. You don't swear to be paralegal. You swear to be an Airman. Nothing else. It is never presented any other way.
It isn't that way in the Navy...your job is in fact on the enlistment contract and is in writing before any oath is given.

You are not being forthright if you're denying that you sell applicants on the many features and benefits of the Air Force (specific job training being one of them) before anyone agrees to enlist. If in fact you are giving them jobs after they already swear into active duty than that is some shady business practices on the Air Forces part and I can't believe this is in fact happening. Unless you talking about the Delayed Entry Oath which is meaningless.

These kids are joining the Air Force to perform a job...very few would enlist if you told them all "you're joining the Air Force and we'll figure out what we are going to do with you after boot camp."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2014, 05:08 AM
 
1,405 posts, read 2,147,937 times
Reputation: 1418
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
But that is the distinction. You are applying to JOIN THE AIR FORCE. You are not applying for a specific job. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a cop. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a firefighter. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a crew chief. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a lab tech. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not an aerial gunner. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a supply tech. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a job.

No where in the entire process does any form say anything about a specific job. You take an OATH BEFORE you find out what your job will be. Why? Because you are joining the Air Force, not a job. You stand before the Flag, you raise your right hand, and you swear to your GOD that you will serve. You make the commitment... to the Air Force, and only to the Air Force. You don't swear to be a mental health tech. You don't swear to be paralegal. You swear to be an Airman. Nothing else. It is never presented any other way.
Really? What kind of person would agree to join without a specific job? I would never let my kid do that. I had my specific training on my contract before signing and taking my oath.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2014, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
2,633 posts, read 4,391,959 times
Reputation: 4213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
Really? What kind of person would agree to join without a specific job? I would never let my kid do that. I had my specific training on my contract before signing and taking my oath.
Common practice in both the Air Force and the Coast Guard.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2014, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
2,633 posts, read 4,391,959 times
Reputation: 4213
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBTRS View Post
If in fact you are giving them jobs after they already swear into active duty than that is some shady business practices on the Air Forces part and I can't believe this is in fact happening. Unless you talking about the Delayed Entry Oath which is meaningless.

These kids are joining the Air Force to perform a job...very few would enlist if you told them all "you're joining the Air Force and we'll figure out what we are going to do with you after boot camp."
You're mistaken. Google "Air Force open general contract".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2014, 07:42 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,130 posts, read 38,859,608 times
Reputation: 28092
During the draft days, the Air Force had no problems getting enlistments. In the 60's and after the draft it was my understanding you could enlist into the Air Force and could choose one of four career field's.

The Army still has the guaranteed MOS contract, and over the years has been good about fulfilling it. But if you watch the videos, all of the Army MOS's look exciting to someone.

A young person looking at any of the military job descriptions might have different visions of what they will really be doing...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2014, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,334,463 times
Reputation: 48613
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
As a recruiter, currently a recruiter, I have been told many times, "If your kid doesn't take this job, he won't get another one. He takes this one or I'll remember that every job drop from now on. Your kid is joining the Air Force. He/She is NOT JOINING A JOB. They are joining the Air Force!! Not a job! They will take what we give them, or they can find a job somewhere else. If they want to be an x-ray tech, they'd go be an x-ray tech. They are joining the Air Force. They are not joining x-ray tech university!" (substitute any job).

I've been told that if my kids won't take any job, I'm not allowed to send them to MEPS. If they refuse a job, I'd get in some much trouble (not officially, not in writing, but yes). For my supervisor, a condition of becoming a depper is the willingness to take what you are offered, to be willing to join the Air Force and meet the needs of the Air Force. To join the Air Force, not an AFSC, and to take what we need you to take. You're not doing us a favor by joining, we're doing you a favor by letting you join (not saying I feel this way, but this is the attitude of people I work for).

Recruiters don't work for the applicants, they work for the Air Force.

You CAN try to retrain later (Try/Later). That part is not a lie.

I've never lied. I've said, "If you don't take this job, I'm not sure if my boss will ever give you another." That is true. It is 100% true. PEOPLE, MY BOSS, controlled every kid's job. If a supervisor wants to leave someone in the dep forever, they can. They'll just document that the kid was unwilling to meet the needs of the Air Force, and was offered jobs he/she refused, and that will satisfy even a Congressional complaint. I had a girl turn town a job. She waited 14 MORE MONTHS while watching all her friends ship, and eventually decided to leave and join the Navy.

It's not a lie that you have a retraining window, and can TRY to retrain. It's a lie if a recruiter makes retraining sound like a sure thing.

You don't go to Microsoft, Boeing, or any other big company and apply for a job, get offered an entry level job, and tell them to "shove-it" I want to be a programer, when you aren't trained to be a programer. With the economy the way it is, many people take what jobs they are offered. If Company X offered you a great job, with great benefits, and great pay, and you said, "Nope, I don't want to work for you bad enough to take that job." Do you think that company would offer you another job? Nope. They'd count their loss and hope you find employment elsewhere. Why is the Air Force expected to be different?

I once saw a guy wait 18 months for a certain job because he turned down Crew Chief at his 3 month DEP point. I actually advised him to turn down the Crew Chief job because he wanted Special Forces and was qualified. We needed special forces. Special Forces where "shipping" in an average of 6 months. I can't prove why he waited THREE TIMES LONGER for a job than anyone else, but he did. I paid for that, barely making goal for months after advising him that, and being the only recruiter in my unit not to get a production award that year... can I prove it was retaliation? No.

In my experience, recruiters don't lie. But, they have to adhere to the rules and expectations of supervision. There is absolutely not rule or regulation that says we have to give applicants the job they want.

If we tell kids they can TRY to crosstrain, and they hear something else, then we can't help that.

Sometimes it comes down to two choices:
1. Do you want to be in the Air Force doing a job you don't want?
OR
2. Do you want to be a civilian doing the job you do want?

When my husband enlisted in the Navy after five years in the civilian workforce as a teacher, the Navy happened to need ITs. The conversation went essentially like this....

"So, you've taught teenagers for the past few years...that means you've probably used computers at work. Right? We have these jobs in information systems to fill..."

Which is essentially how my English major, instructor husband got his rating in IT, something he had no background in, and ended up in a comm box in the middle of a desert in Iraq. Granted, over the years, he became a chief petty officer and ended up with the leadership/instructional billets that more directly suit his background,but the reality is, if you want to be in the armed forces, you go with what they happen to need. My spouse now oversees a barracks of new sailors who are all in engineering ratings. I am sure that not every single 18-19 year old kid came in with a burning passion to be a machinist's mate or hull manitenance tech, but they're jobs that need to get filled.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top