U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-12-2014, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
1,991 posts, read 2,057,023 times
Reputation: 2363

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
But that is the distinction. You are applying to JOIN THE AIR FORCE. You are not applying for a specific job. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a cop. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a firefighter. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a crew chief. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a lab tech. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not an aerial gunner. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a supply tech. You are applying to be an AIRMAN, not a job.

No where in the entire process does any form say anything about a specific job. You take an OATH BEFORE you find out what your job will be. Why? Because you are joining the Air Force, not a job. You stand before the Flag, you raise your right hand, and you swear to your GOD that you will serve. You make the commitment... to the Air Force, and only to the Air Force. You don't swear to be a mental health tech. You don't swear to be paralegal. You swear to be an Airman. Nothing else. It is never presented any other way.
Unless you join the Air Guard or Reserves. Then you can get a guaranteed job. As a matter of fact, they pull a list of open AFSC's for the units in your area, sort them by which ones give bonuses, which ones require TS clearances, which ones give GI Bill Kicker payments, etc. Then you choose.

It's how I got the job I wanted with a $15K bonus that requires a TS clearance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-12-2014, 11:06 AM
 
36 posts, read 200,028 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
Unless you join the Air Guard or Reserves.
Is that true for the reserve? I've heard that you can still get assigned to a different competency. I believe for officers, your unit helps prepping you for the board, so there's a better chance of getting what you want. But it's no guarantee. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
1,991 posts, read 2,057,023 times
Reputation: 2363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voxmusculus View Post
Is that true for the reserve? I've heard that you can still get assigned to a different competency. I believe for officers, your unit helps prepping you for the board, so there's a better chance of getting what you want. But it's no guarantee. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not sure about how Officer work in the Reserve's. But in the Guard we have open jobs that we can bid on for Officer slots. Many of them are commissioning opportunities. In other words you apply for that specific Officer job and particular AFSC, then go to AMS (Guard version of OTS) and then the follow on technical school to learn that job.

I know for active duty AF if you fail our of your original tech school they can reclass you to another school thus changing your job. I'm not sure how it work in the Guard or Reserves. I'm in Comm and usually everyone that goes into Comm wants to be there so we've never had anyone fail out of tech school.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2014, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,549 posts, read 8,001,354 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant View Post
You're mistaken. Google "Air Force open general contract".
I am aware of "open general contracts" with the Air Force, my argument is against the notion that people are enlisting in the Air Force without concern for the job they will be doing as he was trying to convince us of. That simply isn't the case as the majority of the people joining are very concerned about the job they will be doing for their enlistment. The truth is that Recruiters are being forced to "sugar coat" the open general contract to get kids to agree to this nonsense in the first place. This can be seen in the OP of this thread.

Most kids that are forced into or accept an open general contract have been SOLD on how they are going to get just what they want at a later time (something on their top three list). I suggest you Google "Air Force open general contract" and I bet you'll discover a whole bunch of young people that are concerned about their open general contracts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2014, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Spokane, WA
1,991 posts, read 2,057,023 times
Reputation: 2363
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBTRS View Post
I am aware of "open general contracts" with the Air Force, my argument is against the notion that people are enlisting in the Air Force without concern for the job they will be doing as he was trying to convince us of. That simply isn't the case as the majority of the people joining are very concerned about the job they will be doing for their enlistment. The truth is that Recruiters are being forced to "sugar coat" the open general contract to get kids to agree to this nonsense in the first place. This can be seen in the OP of this thread.

Most kids that are forced into or accept an open general contract have been SOLD on how they are going to get just what they want at a later time (something on their top three list). I suggest you Google "Air Force open general contract" and I bet you'll discover a whole bunch of young people that are concerned about their open general contracts.
Actually for active duty you can give a list of jobs that you want. Maybe you get your first job maybe its the 3rd job on your list. It depends on the job drops for that month. If a kid does not want a job, like Security Forces or Services, he just does not put that on his list. Recruiter want people to go in, recruits want the job they prefer. It's give and take and depending on the recruiter, some kids can hold out and get the top job on their list. Other times if the recruiter has more than enough DEP'ers they can tell the kids "too bad, you get what you get and you don't throw a fit". But not everyone is Open General Contract. Lots of active duty airmen get the exact job that they want (and some regret that too!).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2014, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
2,633 posts, read 4,391,959 times
Reputation: 4213
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBTRS View Post
I am aware of "open general contracts" with the Air Force, my argument is against the notion that people are enlisting in the Air Force without concern for the job they will be doing as he was trying to convince us of. That simply isn't the case as the majority of the people joining are very concerned about the job they will be doing for their enlistment. The truth is that Recruiters are being forced to "sugar coat" the open general contract to get kids to agree to this nonsense in the first place. This can be seen in the OP of this thread.

Most kids that are forced into or accept an open general contract have been SOLD on how they are going to get just what they want at a later time (something on their top three list). I suggest you Google "Air Force open general contract" and I bet you'll discover a whole bunch of young people that are concerned about their open general contracts.
Then they shouldn't have signed open general. Nobody forced them into it. Certainly some recruiters will SELL. But if, as Dmarie talks about, it's hard to even keep UP with the interest-why would they? Why would they have to lie or sell? 'Join the Air Force open general now or you'll just have to wait until the job you're holding out for opens up.' That's not exactly a hard pressure tactic, and it's true.

Of course people are concerned about what job.

But they have to make a rational decision: a) do they take the open general to get into a service that is notoriously hard to enter, and go in NOW, or b) do they hold out for the job they want (and maybe get job-locked).

I submit that more often than you apparently think, it's choice A, and then let the whining begin when they find out the open general really is going to be enforced.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2014, 12:24 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,182 posts, read 9,221,015 times
Reputation: 4716
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant View Post
Then they shouldn't have signed open general. Nobody forced them into it. Certainly some recruiters will SELL. But if, as Dmarie talks about, it's hard to even keep UP with the interest-why would they? Why would they have to lie or sell? 'Join the Air Force open general now or you'll just have to wait until the job you're holding out for opens up.' That's not exactly a hard pressure tactic, and it's true.

Of course people are concerned about what job.

But they have to make a rational decision: a) do they take the open general to get into a service that is notoriously hard to enter, and go in NOW, or b) do they hold out for the job they want (and maybe get job-locked).

I submit that more often than you apparently think, it's choice A, and then let the whining begin when they find out the open general really is going to be enforced.

You can't necessarily wait for your job choice. For me, that would have meant I would be forcing my applicants to dep discharge and go to another branch. My boss would not allow them to keep turning down jobs, they would have been released form the delayed entry program. If we need 100 radiology techs, and 10,000 people want to join in that job, and they all insist on waiting, that would take years upon years. I realize this is a bit of an exaggeration, but more people want jobs like that then come available in YEARS. Literally Years!

Yet, if we need 10,000 cops to keep your bases and troops safe, and only 1,000 want to be cops, are we just supposed to operate unsafely without enough cops? Or should we tell some of those people that want to be radiology techs that they need to be cops instead?

Joining the military is something you do to help defend your country. The military doesn't serve you, you serve the military. If you don't want to serve your military and your country, then you shouldn't join. You should remain a civilian.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2014, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,549 posts, read 8,001,354 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
Joining the military is something you do to help defend your country. The military doesn't serve you, you serve the military. If you don't want to serve your military and your country, then you shouldn't join. You should remain a civilian.
That is a noble theory but my experience tells me that the reality is that 99.9% of the kids joining are not joining for the reason you mention. They are joining for one or more of the benefits that are sold to them by you as a Recruiter of the advertising the services do...job training being a big one.

If all you were offering was what you stated above, I bet you'd find your job a lot more difficult.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2014, 02:19 PM
 
Location: N of citrus, S of decent corn
34,526 posts, read 42,694,765 times
Reputation: 57174
This is true of the Army also. My son, fortunately, had an older brother who knew the ropes. His advice was, unless he had a Ranger slot IN HIS CONTRACT, the chance of his getting into it later was not very likely. He sat all day in MEPS, and got up to walk out (as his brother told him). Only then, did someone ask him what it would take to get him to join the Army today. So it was written into his contract, and only then did he sign up.
It sounds like every branch is the same. Someone has to do the less glamorous jobs, which are also important, but everyone wants to be a Ranger, or Seal or a pilot, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-15-2014, 02:48 PM
 
12,623 posts, read 12,065,272 times
Reputation: 17266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
Really? What kind of person would agree to join without a specific job? I would never let my kid do that. I had my specific training on my contract before signing and taking my oath.
In the Navy they are called "strikers".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Military Life and Issues
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top