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View Poll Results: Do military members have better values and backgrounds than those that did not serve?
No, military members are nearly identical to the general population that didn't serve in the military. 43 66.15%
Yes, military members have better values, even before serving, then the general population that doesn't serve. 16 24.62%
This may have been true decades in the past but not now. 6 9.23%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-20-2015, 02:33 PM
 
1,405 posts, read 2,147,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
Do you have verifiable proof of any known convicted felon entering the U.S. military within the past 30 years? Do you have some real data? I would be interested in seeing it. If not, well... It's just talk.
There are plenty of people convicted by General court martial every year.

In fact, the Navy currently has over 20 Admirals under investigation for corruption and bribery charges.

A few years back there was an army general who lost a star for misuse of taxpayers money.

If people didn't commit crimes in the military there wouldn't be a need for the ucmj.
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:39 PM
 
7 posts, read 3,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
Do you have verifiable proof of any known convicted felon entering the U.S. military within the past 30 years? Do you have some real data? I would be interested in seeing it. If not, well... It's just talk.
I think you might have misunderstood me. I am talking about those currently under investigation or pending court-martial. We catch them, we convict them, we kick them out. I am not talking about people with felony convictions coming into the military.
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Old 06-20-2015, 05:00 PM
 
17,892 posts, read 9,831,212 times
Reputation: 17371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
There are plenty of people convicted by General court martial every year.

In fact, the Navy currently has over 20 Admirals under investigation for corruption and bribery charges.

A few years back there was an army general who lost a star for misuse of taxpayers money.

If people didn't commit crimes in the military there wouldn't be a need for the ucmj.
You responded to this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM
Do you have verifiable proof of any known convicted felon entering the U.S. military within the past 30 years? Do you have some real data? I would be interested in seeing it. If not, well... It's just talk.
And intentionally or unintentionally, you clearly did not address Poncho_NM's point.
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Old 06-20-2015, 05:08 PM
 
17,892 posts, read 9,831,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
No comments on the book?

No comments at all?

Just a drive by?

I read some of the comments from those who read the book. I would not put much faith in the author. After all, he is trying to sell the book.
Well, the sales blurb itself: "as Matt Kennard’s explosive investigative report makes clear, by opening its doors to neo-Nazis, white supremacists, gang members, criminals of all stripes, the overweight, and the mentally ill."

This is sensationalism. With "... the overweight, and the mentally ill," we realize that what's really under discussion is the lowering of basic standards and the increased approval of waivers...not any deliberate recruitment goals to increase the numbers of "neo-Nazis, white supremacists, gang members, criminals of all stripes" in the military for nefarious reasons.

This happened in the 70s after the draft ended, caused its predictable problems, and recruitment was tightened up again. I suspect it happened in 1942, too.

But as you are alluding, this does not indicate that people with criminal records have been recruited, although it's reasonably certain that if you recruit in a neighborhood where, say, the Crips are highly active, you're going to get young men who have had some relationship with them. What's the alternative? To blackball entire sections of the nation?
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Old 06-23-2015, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
8,853 posts, read 4,823,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
There are plenty of people convicted by General court martial every year.

In fact, the Navy currently has over 20 Admirals under investigation for corruption and bribery charges.

A few years back there was an army general who lost a star for misuse of taxpayers money.

If people didn't commit crimes in the military there wouldn't be a need for the ucmj.
That reminds me of a hard lesson I learned in the late Cold War was a Security Officer (Navy's form of a Provost Marshall).

If a superior is doing drugs, he or she will do whatever they can, use whatever they can to prevent you from finding out and preventing them from collecting their retirement pay. It may be orders, lying to you, intimidation, using that taught respect we have for superiors, anything.

If I had stayed in longer, I might have developed a heck of a complex wondering if for everything a leader told me, where it was true or not, of whether I should be trusting this person.

Finally, the best way to be good at Security? Don't worry about having a career because you will make more enemies than friends.
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Old 06-23-2015, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,722 posts, read 47,472,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpo6o4 View Post
Submariner, which branch? That definitely can't be the AF. Or you had a job that was on the PRP program or something similar?
I am a submariner. I served 20 years Active Duty in the US Navy, in the Silent Service. For most of my career I was in the Personnel Reliability Program [PRP] since I dealt directly with nuclear weapons systems and targeting.

USS George C. Marshall SSBN 654 (b)
USS Simon Lake AS-33
USS Casimir Pulaski SSBN 633(g)
USS Alaska SSBN 732 (b)
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Old 06-23-2015, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
13,138 posts, read 7,387,994 times
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My wife served in the US Navy way back in the 80s for a few years. I knew nothing about military life before I met her, but she told me something very insightful which helped me understand the personality of a person who voluntarily enters the military. She said, "The military didn't make me a more disciplined person. I had a disciplined personality, ideally suited for military life, before I even joined." She is definitely correct about that. She likes things a certain way, is very structured and systematic, and has a carefully considered method for doing EVERYTHING. It's a contrast to my laid back whatever way of approaching my life. We complement each other quite well. She has learned that many of the little things don't matter and she needs to relax more, and I have learned that some of the little details that I used to neglect really do make a difference.
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Old 06-23-2015, 07:56 AM
 
17,892 posts, read 9,831,212 times
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My daughter said she could tell the vets in college. They were the ones who lined their books to the edges of the desks....
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Old 06-23-2015, 08:08 AM
 
2,058 posts, read 4,309,858 times
Reputation: 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
Do you have verifiable proof of any known convicted felon entering the U.S. military within the past 30 years? Do you have some real data? I would be interested in seeing it. If not, well... It's just talk.
Active duty military personnel get convicted of crimes EVERYDAY. That's the point the Poster was making.
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Old 06-23-2015, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
13,138 posts, read 7,387,994 times
Reputation: 27253
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorado0359 View Post
Active duty military personnel get convicted of crimes EVERYDAY. That's the point the Poster was making.
You are right about that. My close friend has a young daughter in the Marines. One of her fellow Marines attempted to rape her just a few weeks ago. They were questioned by NCIS and he was arrested and is being held for trial by the military court system. So much for fellow officers protecting each other. Although officers often protect each other in terrible life threatening situations, just as in the priesthood, being held to a higher standard of ethics does not mean these standards are always followed.
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