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View Poll Results: Do military members have better values and backgrounds than those that did not serve?
No, military members are nearly identical to the general population that didn't serve in the military. 43 66.15%
Yes, military members have better values, even before serving, then the general population that doesn't serve. 16 24.62%
This may have been true decades in the past but not now. 6 9.23%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-23-2015, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Florida
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If you value taking orders and traditions over independent thought and progressive values then sure, I guess so.
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Old 06-23-2015, 10:22 AM
 
19,697 posts, read 10,967,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
If you value taking orders and traditions over independent thought and progressive values then sure, I guess so.
You mean progressive values like integration back in 1947 and a more meritocritious culture over a hundred years ago than civilian society has yet reached?

It's not as though orders aren't given and taken in any civilian job where there is a boss given authority over people.

But when I was in the Air Force, there was always genuine training, and if a troop screwed up the question was "Who trained him?" and then "who assigned him a task he wasn't trained for?"

When I was in the Air Force, I was never held responsible for anything or anyone I didn't have authority over.

And there was none of this silly "matrix management" rubbish where I had two managers, neither of which was held accountable but both of which had authority over me.
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Old 06-23-2015, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Middle America
36,431 posts, read 41,529,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
My wife served in the US Navy way back in the 80s for a few years. I knew nothing about military life before I met her, but she told me something very insightful which helped me understand the personality of a person who voluntarily enters the military. She said, "The military didn't make me a more disciplined person. I had a disciplined personality, ideally suited for military life, before I even joined." She is definitely correct about that. She likes things a certain way, is very structured and systematic, and has a carefully considered method for doing EVERYTHING. It's a contrast to my laid back whatever way of approaching my life. We complement each other quite well. She has learned that many of the little things don't matter and she needs to relax more, and I have learned that some of the little details that I used to neglect really do make a difference.
This really varies, though, and the military attracts a variety of personality types. My spouse has been in 14 years and counting, and is probably the least structured, systematic, particular person I've ever met. He's highly flexible and laid back, rolls with things easily and happily, which have actually been assets to him in his career. Before I met him, I had limited exposure to people who currently serve (though I had known my share of prior service and retired veterans), and I had a very solid idea in my head of the sort of stereotypical, highly ordered, Type-A, stiff-upper-lip, even rigid personality type that constituted "military." And I've certainly met numerous personnel of that type at various commands we've been with. But that's certainly not my husband, and it's not everyone who serves.
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,706 posts, read 5,396,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
My daughter said she could tell the vets in college. They were the ones who lined their books to the edges of the desks....
And then there are those of us who took active measures to obscure that we were in the military such as when I started incorporating my dance moves in my walk instead of marching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
............When I was in the Air Force, I was never held responsible for anything or anyone I didn't have authority over.
Different services, I suppose. I was "raised" on Navy stories of ship commanders being out in certain regions....and then told to leave certain contacts alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
............
And there was none of this silly "matrix management" rubbish where I had two managers, neither of which was held accountable but both of which had authority over me.
I had an interesting situation where the full bird Captain I worked for was in command of all the enlisted for a sector.......including those who worked for another command (but we were all under the same Admiral). Hence, he could give the orders for them to be assigned to the security duties (Aux Security Force) he required of me, but their primary duties were to another officer, who wrote their evals, who I didn't know, and probably often didn't agree with my mission........as I found out when one such officer approved the standard leave of one member half way through a visiting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine...Force_Regiment "FAST" training team visit.

Long story short and to get to the point of the thread, in my experience, if over a quarter of century ago, I found a lot of people who didn't care about your mission given by the Navy if it wasn't in their interest.....and their interest might not even be the mission of the command they were assigned to. Didn't see it always but saw it enough.

Why? Well, putting aside the ones who were self serving, I would say that when you make rank and get use to people doing what you say, you aren't that willing to listen to someone of lesser rank telling you what you can and cannot do. That was one of the reasons why my Captain put his "Navy Police" force in a Department of the Navy/Federal style uniform; being inside the Washington Naval District, he wanted to dissuade the attempts of high ranking officers trying to lord over petty officers.

Finally, just to give our civilian readers at home of how it could go. We were doing an inbound gate search, such as looking for contraband, when a General got caught in the count. He wasn't too happy, asked and found out there was nothing he could say to dissuade me from having his car searched. After a few minutes, waiting in the queue, he had turned around and was exiting the station (which was his only option to avoid search). At the gate house, he paused, leaned out his window and said to me, "Lieutenant, I'm leaving! I don't have time for this nonsense!"

I came to attention, clicked my heels, saluted, and said, "As you wish, Sir.". Even when you are carrying out orders that they don't like, you still have to be respectful.
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
1,384 posts, read 808,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-apple-less View Post
I said no. Military people are into physically disciplining their kids, and I can't stand for that.
This is absolutely false.

Although sometimes children need to be physically disciplined (within reason). There's nothing wrong with a good spanking or slap upside the head when the kid gets out of line.
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Old 06-27-2015, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,223 posts, read 15,876,078 times
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Navy 1990-1996

I say no, for every 1 good valued person there were 5 drunks that cheat on their wives with hookers any port they hit. I met some really close friends, but I also met some awful people.
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Old 06-27-2015, 09:10 PM
 
19,697 posts, read 10,967,771 times
Reputation: 19674
Most of you guys seemed to have had very crappy tours and careers. I must have been royally blessed for 26 years. I don't think I'd need both hands to count the people in my career I'd never want to meet again, but a whole lot I continue to admire.
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Old 06-28-2015, 05:56 AM
 
7,969 posts, read 11,588,104 times
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I think its ironic that many of us love the miltary for providing what a a very ordered rules driven society gives us. And the same people who love that are loving on political parties that want to tear down legislation. Makes no sense to me. People are people, every all the time, basically the same. Without rules it would be chaos. The military imposes a lot of rules to uphold discipline and the side effect is a more moralistic acting community.
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Old 06-28-2015, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
14,427 posts, read 8,314,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giesela View Post
I think its ironic that many of us love the miltary for providing what a a very ordered rules driven society gives us. And the same people who love that are loving on political parties that want to tear down legislation. Makes no sense to me. People are people, every all the time, basically the same. Without rules it would be chaos. The military imposes a lot of rules to uphold discipline and the side effect is a more moralistic acting community.
Your premise is completely false. Ever heard of religion?
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Old 06-28-2015, 07:49 AM
 
19,697 posts, read 10,967,771 times
Reputation: 19674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
Your premise is completely false. Ever heard of religion?
Some people honestly believe in their religion and seek to live it.

As I said earlier, some people honestly accept the Core Values of the military and seek to live by them.
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