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View Poll Results: Do military members have better values and backgrounds than those that did not serve?
No, military members are nearly identical to the general population that didn't serve in the military. 43 66.15%
Yes, military members have better values, even before serving, then the general population that doesn't serve. 16 24.62%
This may have been true decades in the past but not now. 6 9.23%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-04-2015, 01:44 PM
 
38 posts, read 20,760 times
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The average enlistee has a higher IQ and comes from a higher income household than their civilian counterparts.

You can sign up for the benefits, training, pension, etc. but you will not make it without commitment and discipline.

Ultimately, the machine molds new people into warriors. There are over one million people in the active military. That is the population of Pittsburgh and Columbus combined. Do you think that, in those cities, you might find some bad apples? Any organization with large numbers of people from diverse backgrounds will have its' share of good and bad people.

Without people willing to put forth the necessary time (years), effort and sacrifice, we would not exist as a free nation.
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Old 07-04-2015, 03:14 PM
 
8,218 posts, read 8,498,682 times
Reputation: 10182
Whoa! What a second. Why does your poll have no option for the possibility that the military may have WORSE values?

One easy example is that the military believes in blind loyalty and obedience, which I think is totally, totally wrong. That's apart from things like the tendency to see violence as a solution, or silence as a virtue.
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Old 07-05-2015, 02:34 AM
 
Location: Pérouges
577 posts, read 646,610 times
Reputation: 1327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
One easy example is that the military believes in blind loyalty and obedience, which I think is totally, totally wrong. That's apart from things like the tendency to see violence as a solution, or silence as a virtue.
Your thinking it is "totally, totally wrong" is perfectly reasonable....

Oh, you also happen to be "totally, totally wrong" as very few militaries and certainly no NATO ones believe in or encourage "blind loyalty and obedience". In fact it is generally the case that the opposite is actively sort, the ability to think is very important. Not to mention of course that there are a myriad of regulations to prevent the military from being populated solely by automatons not to mention a fine sheath of laws.
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Old 07-05-2015, 09:47 AM
 
7,843 posts, read 11,140,440 times
Reputation: 10079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
Your premise is completely false. Ever heard of religion?
Yes. ???
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Old 07-05-2015, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
13,140 posts, read 7,393,567 times
Reputation: 27254
Quote:
Originally Posted by beavischipolte View Post
The average enlistee has a higher IQ and comes from a higher income household than their civilian counterparts.

You can sign up for the benefits, training, pension, etc. but you will not make it without commitment and discipline.

Ultimately, the machine molds new people into warriors. There are over one million people in the active military. That is the population of Pittsburgh and Columbus combined. Do you think that, in those cities, you might find some bad apples? Any organization with large numbers of people from diverse backgrounds will have its' share of good and bad people.

Without people willing to put forth the necessary time (years), effort and sacrifice, we would not exist as a free nation.
Where did you get that idea? Care to cite a (reliable) source for that information?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
Whoa! What a second. Why does your poll have no option for the possibility that the military may have WORSE values?

One easy example is that the military believes in blind loyalty and obedience, which I think is totally, totally wrong. That's apart from things like the tendency to see violence as a solution, or silence as a virtue.
This. Teaching a large group of individuals to follow any orders without question can be a very dangerous policy (see Hitler and The Nazis, among many other examples of atrocities committed to others on a large scale). The pat answer "I was just following orders" becomes a convenient excuse for individuals to absolve themselves of their responsibility in the commission of terrible crimes.
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Old 07-05-2015, 01:13 PM
 
17,895 posts, read 9,836,596 times
Reputation: 17371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
Whoa! What a second. Why does your poll have no option for the possibility that the military may have WORSE values?

One easy example is that the military believes in blind loyalty and obedience, which I think is totally, totally wrong. That's apart from things like the tendency to see violence as a solution, or silence as a virtue.
Actually, no. At least the US military (and other western militarizes) does not believe in "blind loyalty and obedience." That's why there is such a concept as "unlawful order"--because some orders are not to be obeyed. That's why we pledge first to defend the Constitution--and whether we follow anyone's orders depends on whether those orders are in defense of the Constitution. And that's why if we obey an illegal order, we are individually held responsible for having done so.

Nor does the military tend to see violence as a solution, although the military is the violent solution. But the military will point out the problems with using the violent solution.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:35 AM
 
691 posts, read 755,493 times
Reputation: 475
Nothing wrong with the military imposing various rules to uphold morale and discipline. And many in th emilitary follow and try to live up to their belief systems as well.
Did my dad believe in the Core Values of the military, yes,I believe so. He also believed in the core values of his faith and his family.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:46 AM
 
Location: SW OK (AZ Native)
14,558 posts, read 6,698,475 times
Reputation: 6511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Actually, no. At least the US military (and other western militarizes) does not believe in "blind loyalty and obedience." That's why there is such a concept as "unlawful order"--because some orders are not to be obeyed. That's why we pledge first to defend the Constitution--and whether we follow anyone's orders depends on whether those orders are in defense of the Constitution. And that's why if we obey an illegal order, we are individually held responsible for having done so.

Nor does the military tend to see violence as a solution, although the military is the violent solution. But the military will point out the problems with using the violent solution.
An excellent answer to one of CD's more obtuse and uneducated comments, likely from someone who never served or who did and didn't get what he/she wanted all the time.
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