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Old 07-10-2015, 06:20 PM
 
Location: san antonio, tx
589 posts, read 764,914 times
Reputation: 822

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The term "double dipping" regarding the military/Feds has been around since at least the 70's, so I use the term just as an expression. There have been several debates in the news about whether it's 'fair' for military retirees to draw pensions while earning a salary from the federal government. I agree that if someone serves 20 or more years in the military, earning a federal pension should have absolutely nothing to do the other.

I read this on Clearancejobs.com (article from Feb 2014)

"Currently, military retirees who take DoD civilian jobs have two options. One, they can forfeit their military retirement and use those years of service as credit toward a civil service pension. Or two, they can keep their military retirement pay and start fresh in civil service, according to the OPM. To go from these options to zero retirement compensation seems harsh at best."

And this from opm.gov (a bit confusing)

"FERS Information MILITARY RETIRED PAY
Crediting Military Service for FERS When You Are Receiving Military Retired Pay
You cannot receive credit for any military service in your FERS retirement computation, if you are receiving military retired pay, unless you were awarded the retired pay:
--Due to a service-connected disability either incurred in combat with an enemy of the United States or caused by an instrumentality of war and incurred in the line of duty during a period of war, or
--Under the provisions of Chapter 1223, Title 10, U.S.C. (pertaining to retirement from a reserve component of the Armed Forces).
However, you can elect to waive the retired pay and have the military service added to your civilian service in computing your FERS annuity. In addition to waiving your military retired pay you MUST pay a deposit for your post 1956 military deposit prior to separating from your agency in order for it to be creditable in your FERS retirement case.
How to Waive Your Military Retired Pay
If you want to waive your military retired pay to receive credit for military service in the computation of your FERS or CSRS benefit, you should write the Retired Pay Operations Center at least 60 days before your planned retirement.
"
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Old 07-10-2015, 06:40 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
23,059 posts, read 35,495,844 times
Reputation: 26772
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorgirl2007 View Post
There have been several debates in the news about whether it's 'fair' for military retirees to draw pensions while earning a salary from the federal government.
Currently, military retirees who take DoD civilian jobs have two options.
One, they can forfeit their military retirement and use those years of service as credit toward a civil service pension.

Or two, they can keep their military retirement pay and start fresh in civil service.
But there can be exceptions - some reservists, those who did not complete their 20 years of active duty, those on military disability retirements etc, etc, etc...
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:45 AM
 
2,379 posts, read 3,963,044 times
Reputation: 3384
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrels View Post
You say double dipping like it's a bad thing.

If you earn two pensions, you deserve two pensions. Why on earth would you have to forfeit one if you want to retire from a different job later down the road?
Thank you!!! My husband is retired and working civil service, I hate it when people imply that he should get less for retirement from civil service because he's already got military retirement.... Or that he should that either his military retirement or disability pay should be reduced because he draws both.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:47 PM
 
7,632 posts, read 8,269,691 times
Reputation: 11570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakeneko View Post
My husband is retired and working civil service, I hate it when people imply that he should get less for retirement from civil service because he's already got military retirement...
The issue is, should he be allowed TWO retirements based on a single source of time or should the retirement systems remain autonomous just like every other retirement system? Nobody is saying they should get less.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a retired military person accepting federal civilian employment, but I have a big issue with being able to double count the military service time as if it was also civilian service. Time should only count once. If you have a military retirement and start as a CIVILIAN employee whats the beef with the civilian retirement clock restarting?

Nobody is saying he should get less, they are saying they should not get more by double using the same time for two separate retirement pays.
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Old 07-13-2015, 01:25 PM
 
Location: SW OK (AZ Native)
12,086 posts, read 5,556,992 times
Reputation: 5417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabrrita View Post
The issue is, should he be allowed TWO retirements based on a single source of time or should the retirement systems remain autonomous just like every other retirement system? Nobody is saying they should get less.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a retired military person accepting federal civilian employment, but I have a big issue with being able to double count the military service time as if it was also civilian service. Time should only count once. If you have a military retirement and start as a CIVILIAN employee whats the beef with the civilian retirement clock restarting?

Nobody is saying he should get less, they are saying they should not get more by double using the same time for two separate retirement pays.

That's not being done now, unless the civilian employee buys back his or her military time. It's economically feasible for someone who does one or two enlistments and separates after 4 or 7 years. However, for a 20-year E-7 it's over $15,000 for the buy-back, and not a lot of people can swing that. For me it was more than double that. If a GS civilian opts to not buy back, while the time in the military counts toward the age at retirement, it's not part of the annuity. See DFAS buy-back estimator for details. The retirements are separate.
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Old 07-13-2015, 01:59 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
23,059 posts, read 35,495,844 times
Reputation: 26772
Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
See [url="http://livecyclepub.dfas.mil/DocumentManager/docm1436535615075/e14cc3eca0cdb76857fa8d27d090c9b9?type=YXBwbGljYXRp b24vcGRm"]
That URL does not work. Appears it was a temporary document displayed for viewing...

This should work, or at least get your close: Military Service Deposits
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Old 07-13-2015, 02:20 PM
 
Location: SW OK (AZ Native)
12,086 posts, read 5,556,992 times
Reputation: 5417
The starting link is:

Military Buy Back Estimator
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Old 07-17-2015, 07:25 AM
 
1,308 posts, read 1,899,692 times
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It used to be that O4 and above could not draw a pension. The Clinton administration changed it and now anyone can come back to the FERS system.

I personally wish they would go back to the old rule barring O4 and above. I see too much fraudulent hires and revolving door Captains taking GS15 positions they're in no way qualified for.

Most retirees don't opt to buy back their military time unless they're in a very strange situation. I knew one who retired as an e7 and made GS15 step 10 at 61. He's considering buying his mil time back.
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Old 07-17-2015, 08:19 AM
 
15,509 posts, read 7,945,642 times
Reputation: 14515
Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
That's not being done now, unless the civilian employee buys back his or her military time.
In which case, it still hasn't been done, since the time has been bought back.

So (not disputing you), nobody is getting to count the same years in two different systems.
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Old 07-17-2015, 08:23 AM
 
1,308 posts, read 1,899,692 times
Reputation: 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
In which case, it still hasn't been done, since the time has been bought back.

So (not disputing you), nobody is getting to count the same years in two different systems.
The exception is reservists.

Reservists' active time counts towards both FERS retirement (after buying it back) and reserve pension.
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