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Old 11-21-2017, 11:37 PM
 
4,327 posts, read 1,625,243 times
Reputation: 2717

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I had to wait the lawfully required six months after retirement before I could take a government job, and I was, indeed, absolutely qualified for the one I was offered.

(I didn't wind up taking it--within six months I was already hired elsewhere).
All I know is what I have been told, 6 months is really not that long if someone has enough pull. A friend of mine is GS ex military and said it happens ALL the time. Some agency hiring manager will put someone in by name and circumvent the entire USAjobs process, some are military retirees.


So this issue is not specific to retirees but its just extra salt in the US under employment wound that tax payers will be flipping the bill for a double dipper to get 2 pensions when most people cant even get a USAjobs interview.
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Old 11-22-2017, 06:31 AM
 
15,522 posts, read 7,952,885 times
Reputation: 14536
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
All I know is what I have been told, 6 months is really not that long if someone has enough pull. A friend of mine is GS ex military and said it happens ALL the time. Some agency hiring manager will put someone in by name and circumvent the entire USAjobs process, some are military retirees.


So this issue is not specific to retirees but its just extra salt in the US under employment wound that tax payers will be flipping the bill for a double dipper to get 2 pensions when most people cant even get a USAjobs interview.
You contradicted yourself. You said, "...if someone has enough pull" and "...some are military retirees." That is not "...ALL the time."

And an E-8 doesn't have that kind of pull. That's only going to happen if that E-8 does, in fact, happen to be especially qualified. Most O-6s aren't going to have that pull either--it's not as though a GS-14 already in line for that GS-15 slot doesn't have pull of his own through the contacts he's already developed.
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
23,062 posts, read 35,507,408 times
Reputation: 26782
I saw variations in the "6 month rule" when I retired from the Army in 1990. There continues to be apparent variations, and it is a matter of reading and applying the rules as appropriate...



Military retirees have to wait 6 months to enter civil service in DoD Department of Defense reinstates 180-day civilian hiring restriction

By Jodi Mohrmann - Managing Editor of special projects
Updated: 11:41 AM, March 08, 2017

Quote:
If you are retiring from the military and you're looking to enter civil service in the Department of Defense, you'll have to wait 180 days from your retirement date, or get a special waiver.

This 180-day waiting policy was waived after a state of national emergency was declared Sept. 14, 2001. As part of the National Defense Authorization Act of fiscal year 2017, signed Dec. 23, 2016 by President Obama, that policy was reinstated.
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The 180-day civilian hiring restriction applies to all non-appropriated and appropriated fund civilian positions in the competitive and excepted service, senior executive service and senior level positions, and scientific and professional positions. It also includes all permanent, temporary, term, part-time, flexible and intermittent positions.


No One Really Understands How Vets’ Preference Works in Federal Hiring
By Kellie Lunney April 20, 2016
No One Really Understands How Vets
www.govexec.com

Quote:
Many veterans still do not understand how vets’ preference works in federal hiring – and it’s a factor in complaints filed over application of the benefit designed to help former service members find jobs and increase diversity in government.

“There is a myth [among veterans] that vets’ preference is a guarantee for any job that you apply for in the federal government,” said Aleks Morosky, deputy director of the Veterans of Foreign Wars’
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:18 PM
 
4,327 posts, read 1,625,243 times
Reputation: 2717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
I saw variations in the "6 month rule" when I retired from the Army in 1990. There continues to be apparent variations, and it is a matter of reading and applying the rules as appropriate...



Military retirees have to wait 6 months to enter civil service in DoD Department of Defense reinstates 180-day civilian hiring restriction
By Jodi Mohrmann - Managing Editor of special projects
Updated: 11:41 AM, March 08, 2017





No One Really Understands How Vets’ Preference Works in Federal Hiring
By Kellie Lunney April 20, 2016
No One Really Understands How Vets
www.govexec.com
The vet has to meet the job listing absolute minimum qualifications. So for instance if its an engineering job, all they have to have is maybe a civil engineering degree and have done some minimal amount of engineering while in the military (since military contracts out most of the hard core engineering and advanced mathematics work). Where as that same contractor doing really tedious complex engineering who might have an advanced degree will get passed up by the vet (unless said contractor has such a unique profound skill set THAT the agency ABSOLUTLY needs, which is incredibly rare since most of that is contracted out).


So if the vet does not even have the engineering degree, then yes they will not be considered but the bar is pretty low for veterans so long as they check all the boxes. That is my understanding, I could be completely wrong but that is my understanding.


Also I think there is a fear among hiring managers that if they don't hire a vet, but minimally qualified vets applied that they better have a case that will stand up to a congressional hearing as to why they did not hire the minimally qualified vet over a maximum qualified civilian. This is an issue of training for the hiring manager as to what exactly they have to consider when reviewing applications. No one wants to have heat come down on them if the vet puts in a freedom of information request and starts causing problems for the agency because they were not hired, etc etc.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:05 PM
 
1,309 posts, read 1,900,630 times
Reputation: 1279
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
The issue is often times they don't earn their initial position in civilian govt, they use their influence from their military rank and position to gain their fed GS seat. THAT is where people take issue.


if some retired lt col or E8 just went on to USAjobs got their 5 points and applied like everyone else I don't think there would be any issues, but that's not what actually happens.
Yes, this is precisely the problem. Higher ranking military members use their influence to get a job. What generally happens is these jobs are created based on a new found "need" that magically corresponds to the same time some O-5, O-6, E-9 is retiring and the job requirement is written exactly for this one person. It happens ALL THE TIME at major commands. It happened so much at my last command and so many IG complaints were filed that there was a congressional investigation.

These people did not compete for these jobs in any way. The No Colonel Left Behind Act is alive and well in the DOD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I had to wait the lawfully required six months after retirement before I could take a government job, and I was, indeed, absolutely qualified for the one I was offered.

(I didn't wind up taking it--within six months I was already hired elsewhere).
The waiver is easy enough to get to bypass the requirement. It's not even required in some cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
All I know is what I have been told, 6 months is really not that long if someone has enough pull. A friend of mine is GS ex-military and said it happens ALL the time. Some agency hiring manager will put someone in by name and circumvent the entire USAjobs process, some are military retirees.


So this issue is not specific to retirees but its just extra salt in the US under employment wound that tax payers will be flipping the bill for a double dipper to get 2 pensions when most people cant even get a USAjobs interview.
It does happen all the time.

You can probably guess that most taxpayers would not be happy to know that a guy who is already receiving a 100K a year in pension and disability (about what a 30 year O-6 gets) received a 140K a year government job noncompetetively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
You contradicted yourself. You said, "...if someone has enough pull" and "...some are military retirees." That is not "...ALL the time."

And an E-8 doesn't have that kind of pull. That's only going to happen if that E-8 does, in fact, happen to be especially qualified. Most O-6s aren't going to have that pull either--it's not as though a GS-14 already in line for that GS-15 slot doesn't have pull of his own through the contacts he's already developed.
The difference is the GS-14 looking for a GS-15 slot does not have the pull to create a GS-15 billet to promote himself. Many times an O-6 will be retiring and there is suddenly a new need for another GS-15 billet to be created. It happens frequently. Ask anyone who has been around the DOD civilian workforce at a major command and they will tell you the same thing.
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:38 PM
 
15,522 posts, read 7,952,885 times
Reputation: 14536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
Yes, this is precisely the problem. Higher ranking military members use their influence to get a job. What generally happens is these jobs are created based on a new found "need" that magically corresponds to the same time some O-5, O-6, E-9 is retiring and the job requirement is written exactly for this one person. It happens ALL THE TIME at major commands. It happened so much at my last command and so many IG complaints were filed that there was a congressional investigation.

These people did not compete for these jobs in any way. The No Colonel Left Behind Act is alive and well in the DOD.


The waiver is easy enough to get to bypass the requirement. It's not even required in some cases.


It does happen all the time.
It didn't happen for me, so it doesn't happen all the time.
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA USA
38 posts, read 5,164 times
Reputation: 69
If I had it to do over, I would have done my 20 in the army, then done 20 in some type of federal job, and retired at 59, set in tall cotton for the duration. As it is, I'm 69 and still working for the man every night and day, and will be for the next five years probably. No complaints though. Plan A didn't work out, move on to Plan B.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:30 PM
 
Location: N of citrus, S of decent corn
30,817 posts, read 38,494,704 times
Reputation: 49567
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucFan View Post
There's a large part of our society who think earning a pension is sort of like being on welfare - that you're feeding from the gov't trough/dole and frown on people who are double dipping.
Its jealousy, I think. If a person can legally do it, and is smart enough to position himself that way, good for him. I like the fact that those who put their lives on the line for me in the military get a special perk when they seek a govt job.

Some people who are adrenaline junkies thrive in the military, but could never tolerate a fed desk job, though.

One thing that I do think smells, is when teachers retire and get a pension, then get rehired. That, to me, is double dipping. Let the new fresh teachers work instead.
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:43 AM
 
7,282 posts, read 2,127,796 times
Reputation: 9775
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
Its jealousy, I think. If a person can legally do it, and is smart enough to position himself that way, good for him. I like the fact that those who put their lives on the line for me in the military get a special perk when they seek a govt job.

Some people who are adrenaline junkies thrive in the military, but could never tolerate a fed desk job, though.

One thing that I do think smells, is when teachers retire and get a pension, then get rehired. That, to me, is double dipping. Let the new fresh teachers work instead.
why are pensions treated different than a 401k in some peoples minds? you dont lose yours if you quit and work somewhere else then start a new one, a pension is no different, it was the retirement benefit of working there, it was earned as much as the paycheck was earned

if having two pensions is double dipping, then everyone double dips when they work two jobs because they collect two paychecks
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:08 PM
 
301 posts, read 226,299 times
Reputation: 376
Well if I had played my cards right after retiring from the military I would have gotten on with law enforcement, vice going to work at a civilian company, contributed to their retirement system, had the company go bankrupt and lose everything that the company matched. Fortuantly took my contributions (we got that back) and put it into another companies 401K. But due to the length of time I worked there my 401K wasn't that good.
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