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Old 12-05-2017, 02:57 PM
 
4,357 posts, read 1,641,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
Its jealousy, I think. If a person can legally do it, and is smart enough to position himself that way, good for him. I like the fact that those who put their lives on the line for me in the military get a special perk when they seek a govt job.

Some people who are adrenaline junkies thrive in the military, but could never tolerate a fed desk job, though.

One thing that I do think smells, is when teachers retire and get a pension, then get rehired. That, to me, is double dipping. Let the new fresh teachers work instead.
The thing is 95% of the military are not kicking in doors with M-16s putting their lives on the line. Yes if you are an actual decorated combat veteran that's one thing (however most of these people are not engineers). The people that are actually using their vet pref points to compete for professional federal engineering (or other) rolls were never shot at or in harms way.


So yea it kind of is the same thing as teachers double dipping. Also legal =/= moral, we have corrupt politicians that employ all kinds of "legal" strategy's that are morally bankrupt. Legal is a relative term when you are indirectly making the laws - after all what politician would ever say that veterans should not have preference, it would be political suicide, not because its the right thing to do but just because it would cost them votes.


Unless you are a decorated combat vet AND meet qualifications you should not have preference in fed jobs.
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,152 posts, read 3,778,193 times
Reputation: 4941
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
The thing is 95% of the military are not kicking in doors with M-16s putting their lives on the line. Yes if you are an actual decorated combat veteran that's one thing (however most of these people are not engineers). The people that are actually using their vet pref points to compete for professional federal engineering (or other) rolls were never shot at or in harms way.


So yea it kind of is the same thing as teachers double dipping. Also legal =/= moral, we have corrupt politicians that employ all kinds of "legal" strategy's that are morally bankrupt. Legal is a relative term when you are indirectly making the laws - after all what politician would ever say that veterans should not have preference, it would be political suicide, not because its the right thing to do but just because it would cost them votes.


Unless you are a decorated combat vet AND meet qualifications you should not have preference in fed jobs.


I completely disagree. You paint soldiers and service members with a broad brush here. Soldiers and service members raise their hands and swear to defend the US. As they do they are writing a blank check to pay any price up to and including their death whether or not they are combat arms profession or a finance clerk.

In this day and age it is often not the combat veteran that gets injured or killed in our nations wars. Ask the soldiers of the 507th Maintenance Company in March of 2003 when they were shot up in route to their assignment. Ask Jessica Lynch whose rescue from Iraqi forces in that time what was the cost of her signing her name on the dotted line.

I don't know if you served in the military. I don't care if you have. You have a right to your opinion and that is something I will stand up and demand, even for you. You can complain all day long about veterans preference as is your right. But do not tell me that just because a service member doesn't carry an M4 or M247 and fire rounds down range in battle it doesn't make his or her sacrifice any less important.

Desert storm Feb 1991 the largest group of service members killed in a single attack were a medical unit. You are right. For every infantry soldier on the battlefield there are 5 support soldiers. But their sacrifice is no less important. So save your ignorance of veterans for someone else. Those lost, wounded and or killed don't need your support. We would prefer you just keep it to yourself.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:28 AM
 
7,370 posts, read 2,176,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post

Unless you are a decorated combat vet AND meet qualifications you should not have preference in fed jobs.
vet points aside, i have no issue with preference because as a vet, it means they were in the former service to the US government, is there a reason an employer does not want a former employee back that left on good terms?

if someone left walmart but they were a good employee, do you care if the manager hires them back? hell, even if the manager prefered the former employee, would you make a big deal of it?
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:32 AM
 
15,531 posts, read 7,987,113 times
Reputation: 14542
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsoldier1976 View Post
I completely disagree. You paint soldiers and service members with a broad brush here. Soldiers and service members raise their hands and swear to defend the US. As they do they are writing a blank check to pay any price up to and including their death whether or not they are combat arms profession or a finance clerk.

In this day and age it is often not the combat veteran that gets injured or killed in our nations wars. Ask the soldiers of the 507th Maintenance Company in March of 2003 when they were shot up in route to their assignment. Ask Jessica Lynch whose rescue from Iraqi forces in that time what was the cost of her signing her name on the dotted line.

I don't know if you served in the military. I don't care if you have. You have a right to your opinion and that is something I will stand up and demand, even for you. You can complain all day long about veterans preference as is your right. But do not tell me that just because a service member doesn't carry an M4 or M247 and fire rounds down range in battle it doesn't make his or her sacrifice any less important.

Desert storm Feb 1991 the largest group of service members killed in a single attack were a medical unit. You are right. For every infantry soldier on the battlefield there are 5 support soldiers. But their sacrifice is no less important. So save your ignorance of veterans for someone else. Those lost, wounded and or killed don't need your support. We would prefer you just keep it to yourself.
Or the F-16 maintainer who is probably going to die early from cancer from being doused with hydrazine ("Don't worry, this is a non-toxic form of hydrazine") or the maintainers cleaning the A-10's Gatling gun of depleted uranium deposits--fast and furious for combat turnarounds whether they've got all their protective gear or not.

Or the radioman on a Gnarly Jerk who gets killed in his sleep when the ship runs into a tanker.

Or a bunch of Air Force intelligence troops killed when a bomb explodes in Khobar Towers.


There are whole hosts of dangerous military occupations that don't get anywhere near combat, and when the troops in those jobs sometimes get killed, it reminds us that there aren't many guaranteed safe military occupations after all.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:35 AM
 
15,531 posts, read 7,987,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
vet points aside, i have no issue with preference because as a vet, it means they were in the former service to the US government, is there a reason an employer does not want a former employee back that left on good terms?

if someone left walmart but they were a good employee, do you care if the manager hires them back? hell, even if the manager prefered the former employee, would you make a big deal of it?
The fact that they have proven adjustment to the environment is reason enough.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:38 AM
 
7,370 posts, read 2,176,003 times
Reputation: 9983
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
The thing is 95% of the military are not
doesnt matter, 100% of them are trained to use a gun because that is their first occupation as soldiers

if they end up doing something else, that is because there was a need for that to be done

again, you cant say you want x job and expect it. if they dont need you for it, they give you another job
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:23 AM
 
15,531 posts, read 7,987,113 times
Reputation: 14542
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
doesnt matter, 100% of them are trained to use a gun because that is their first occupation as soldiers

if they end up doing something else, that is because there was a need for that to be done

again, you cant say you want x job and expect it. if they dont need you for it, they give you another job
In the Air Force, those who are not in some direct combat support (that is to say, they will be busy as heck in their primary jobs during combat) are also trained in "war skills" like base defense.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:17 AM
 
4,722 posts, read 5,345,258 times
Reputation: 8600
To continue the thought, it all changed with Afganistan. Support troops were walking 'force protection' in urban warfare as much as the combat teams. Females were put on the combat arms teams as the combat cleared houses to guard the women which seemed to calm the situation with the indigenous personnel having a female soldier guarding their women.

Spec Johnson killed in that special ops mission as a wheeled vehicle mechanic Manning the 50 Cal.

So all gave some, some gave all.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:43 AM
 
301 posts, read 227,555 times
Reputation: 381
I have only one thing to say.
Try working on the flight deck of a carrier during air ops and then say they are not worthy.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
28,147 posts, read 44,429,270 times
Reputation: 15191
I have a buddy who got a sheriff department pension, then a US Navy pension, and he is currently working for a different sheriff department, to get that third pension.

Another friend went to work for the USPS right after he got his Navy pension.

My Dw just retired from DECA last year, that place is loaded with military retirees.
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