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Old 09-22-2015, 01:20 PM
 
Location: SW OK (AZ Native)
14,617 posts, read 6,719,097 times
Reputation: 6538

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sminthian View Post
I'm in the military and just had to do a military funeral today. He was drafted into the Navy during the Vietnam War for 3 years and then got out as an E-3. That means that he didn't try at all while he was in, and then got out as soon as he could.

If you're drafted and forced to do something, should you really get credit for doing it? Part of the speech that you give while presenting the flag is "please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation for your loved one's honorable and faithful service". It was hard for me to say that because I knew he didn't serve with "honorable and faithful service", he was only there because he was forced to do it.

I don't think draftees should get the honors and privileges of real veterans, who volunteered to serve. If you were drafted and stayed in afterwards, that's fine. But, if you did the years that you were drafted to do and then immediately got out, no.
What troubles me is the way I read it... I HAD TO DO a military funeral, which suggests he's a member of an Honor Guard. If, when I was a commander, I had heard of any HG personnel in my chain of command showing such blatant disregard for their honorable tradition and service, I would have had them stripped of the HG priviledge immediately. If it's a chore, I recommend an immediate request for reassignment, maybe to someplace where veterans aren't dying, such as Thule.

My father served in the Navy for 6 months in WW II; he left Great lakes for the Pacific in May 1945. He was injured by a kamikaze attack near Kuril a couple days before Hiroshima, and the war ended shortly afterwards. He died in his early 50s, and while he did not ask for it, he certainly was able to have a military funeral, and he did in fact have a flag draped on the casket. Imagine that not being the case because he only served 6 months.
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:24 PM
 
16,724 posts, read 13,704,406 times
Reputation: 40996
Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
What troubles me is the way I read it... I HAD TO DO a military funeral, which suggests he's a member of an Honor Guard. If, when I was a commander, I had heard of any HG personnel in my chain of command showing such blatant disregard for their honorable tradition and service, I would have had them stripped of the HG priviledge immediately. If it's a chore, I recommend an immediate request for reassignment, maybe to someplace where veterans aren't dying, such as Thule.
I was thinking this very same thing. I wish I knew the OP's real name, because I could find out who he works under and have him dealt with appropriately.
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:30 PM
 
Location: West Texas
960 posts, read 1,821,251 times
Reputation: 1192
Your idiotic attempt to measure others veterans service to your own, if you did serve is beyond contempt!
This man served in USN, drafted or volunteered makes no difference.
You are among the narcissists that believe the sun rises and sets in yourself which makes you a poor example and a disgrace to the military.
The battle fields and oceans hold the remains of draftees killed in action defending this nation.
They served next to the volunteers, some died some lived but they served so you could have the privilege to slander them and show what a lowlife you are to the rest of us.
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:40 PM
 
7,626 posts, read 8,984,306 times
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While he has enough gall to slander the good name and reputation of those who were drafted to serve for our country; he is not man enough to come back to this thread and attempt to defend his statements.

And I know he is reading them, because he has chosen to make his profile "private" sometime in the last 1.5 hours.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,822 posts, read 39,431,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
What troubles me is the way I read it... I HAD TO DO a military funeral, which suggests he's a member of an Honor Guard. If, when I was a commander, I had heard of any HG personnel in my chain of command showing such blatant disregard for their honorable tradition and service, I would have had them stripped of the HG priviledge immediately.
Wouldn't fly in the honor guard in which my spouse is a member, either. And nobody HAS TO do it. Generally, those who do find it an honor. OP is full of crap, as a perusal of his/her posting history plainly indicates. Clearly just trying to stir things up, and likely not even a servicemember.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:47 PM
 
6,098 posts, read 2,508,465 times
Reputation: 3883
I might puke and im not a veteran but a good friend of the family also served as a draftee in the navy in Vietnam on PT boats, it was not a picnic. He seen some really messed up stuff in 2 years that most military people wont see their whole careers.

When your on a PT in a river in the jungle your pretty much infantry at that point only your more of a sitting duck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
It's a duty. It's an honorable duty. Hope you weren't too inconvenienced. I'm also inconvenienced several times per year on these issues...

I am not allowed to say what I'm thinking. I was drafted (1968), my active duty obligation was 2 years. It could have been 18 months under some circumstances.



Never mind... Sorry, but I feel like puking...
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
4 posts, read 2,243 times
Reputation: 15
I personally know a veteran who was drafted during the Vietnam war and went on to earn his commission and retired as a Major General (2 star). His last assignment before retiring was as the commander of an Army base. Just because someone is drafted doesn't mean they didn't give it their all.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:52 PM
 
361 posts, read 271,607 times
Reputation: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sminthian View Post
I'm in the military and just had to do a military funeral today. He was drafted into the Navy during the Vietnam War for 3 years and then got out as an E-3. That means that he didn't try at all while he was in, and then got out as soon as he could.

If you're drafted and forced to do something, should you really get credit for doing it? Part of the speech that you give while presenting the flag is "please accept this flag as a symbol of our appreciation for your loved one's honorable and faithful service". It was hard for me to say that because I knew he didn't serve with "honorable and faithful service", he was only there because he was forced to do it.

I don't think draftees should get the honors and privileges of real veterans, who volunteered to serve. If you were drafted and stayed in afterwards, that's fine. But, if you did the years that you were drafted to do and then immediately got out, no.
Back when I was on shore duty, many years ago, I would do honor guard duty a few times a year. The deceased Vets were mostly from WW2, many had maybe 2 or 3 attending the funeral.

To be honest I didn't want to do it and I'm sure my performance reflected my attitude.


My Dad passed away a few years ago and had an honor guard at his funeral. I was presented the flag and felt the weight of the ceremony for the first time in my life. Afterwards I went to thank the detail for, in my mind, being inconvenienced on a beautiful fall day. One of the guys looked me square in the eye and said matter-of-factly, "Sir, it was our honor." It was a knife in my heart.

To this day I still feel TERRIFIC SHAME that I disrespected fellow service members by my juvenile behavior.

You may want to re-think your position.

(As an aside how would you know what the vet did or didn't do during his service? One sailor I served with was a 20 year E-4. When we had to wear dress uniforms it was embarrassing standing next to him. His decorations made him look like Admiral Halsey, I looked like Ricky Recruit.)
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Old 09-22-2015, 03:11 PM
 
Location: SW OK (AZ Native)
14,617 posts, read 6,719,097 times
Reputation: 6538
The shared drive here at Fort Sill (yeah, I'm Air Force on an Army post) had an excellent how-to for Honor Guards. It explained every step taken and the history and meaning behind each step. It was well-produced with great dignity. As it's on a shared drive I can't share it outside, as in YouTube. However, YT does have an excellent demonstration of Honor Guard procedures, for those unaccustomed to it.

I don't think any vet is ever not moved by this. And based on the OP's callous attitude, I don't think he's worthy of the term "veteran". Still torqued at the term "had to".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhXkP2emFII

Last edited by SluggoF16; 09-22-2015 at 03:20 PM..
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Old 09-22-2015, 03:24 PM
 
17,980 posts, read 9,869,523 times
Reputation: 17476
Quote:
Originally Posted by SluggoF16 View Post
The shared drive here at Fort Sill (yeah, I'm Air Force on an Army post) had an excellent how-to for Honor Guards. It explained every step taken and the history and meaning behind each step. It was well-produced with great dignity. As it's on a shared drive I can't share it outside, as in YouTube. However, YT does have an excellent demonstration of Honor Guard procedures, for those unaccustomned to it.

I don't think any vet is ever not moved by this. And based on the OP's callous attitude, I don't think he's worthy of the term "veteran".
When my father died, I was left as his sole relative, so I accepted the flag. However, I was in uniform myself, so the procedure turned out a bit different, created on the fly.

Rather than being seated as the flag was delivered, I was also standing at attention with the detail commander standing before me, offering the folded flag in both arms. I accepted the flag into my outreached forearms and then brought them straight up at the elbows, pressing the flag to my chest for a moment, then bringing it under my left arm, every move on a one-second count.

I then gave the detail commander a slow salute; he returned it. We shook hands and I thanked him. He replied, "It was our honor," then did a slow about face.

Something none of the civilians attending had ever seen.
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