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Old 07-07-2016, 03:25 PM
 
2 posts, read 7,180 times
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I'm currently a 26 year old graduated with my Doctorate in Pharmacy. I have been speaking with a army recruiter recently and he is starting to get my paperwork started for officer commissioning. However, I had a small misdemeanor 2 years ago with the local SEPTA police in Philadelphia. My phone fell down on the train tracks and I went and got it. Septa police charged with me with a trespassing for my action, but I had my records expunged.

My questions is how exactly will this affect my selection process? I full understand the consequences of my action and know I shouldn't have done that. Im scared that the army might see this as bad and not consider me. In my defense I didn't know that what I did was illegal and had such big consequences. I was just trying to save myself the cost of replacing an Iphone.
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Old 07-07-2016, 03:46 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
24,126 posts, read 38,859,608 times
Reputation: 28082
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan90 View Post
My questions is how exactly will this affect my selection process?
It depends....

If you lie about it and they find out, the Department of the Army might not like that... Because chances are you were arrested correct?

If your records were really expunged, the initial "arrest" is almost insignificant. You weren't convicted...

So you have to figure out what the whole story is...

Last edited by Poncho_NM; 07-07-2016 at 03:57 PM..
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Old 07-07-2016, 04:13 PM
 
2 posts, read 7,180 times
Reputation: 10
I was never arrested. They gave me a ticket and told me to go to court.

My parents helped me hire a lawyer and on the day of court my lawyer had already spoked to the judge and public prosecutor. I walked in and said I was sorry and didn't realize my action and then I went to a Saturday class to have my record expunged.

From my understanding this is not a felony. Specially since I got a citation (I think) and never was actually arrested. In addition I was never convicted of it. The lawyer told me that the record will show that I neither accepted or denied the charges, only that I wished to have them expunged.

At this point in my life I really want to serve my country and I would be heart broken to not be able to do that over a something stupid I did without even realizing it. Also I would never lie on any Government form. I just wanted to see, how this will affect my officer acceptance possibilities.
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Old 07-07-2016, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
1,384 posts, read 758,288 times
Reputation: 1635
I would disclose this. I commissioned as an officer in the Air Force 5 years ago and had to disclose all traffic tickets as well (including a license suspension). So it will come up.

I'm not sure how it works in the Army, but, in the Air Force, you would need a waiver if convicted of a misdemeanor.

Like Poncho said, if you lie and are discovered, you will be in trouble. It will be considered fraudulent enlistment. As an officer, this will be looked at more seriously and you will probably get a dismissal (which is the officer equivalent of a dishonorable discharge). Personally, I'd rather not get in at all than be dishonorably discharged.

Not saying this will all happen, but it's a risk.

Did you discuss this with your recruiter?
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Old 07-08-2016, 08:32 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,182 posts, read 9,221,015 times
Reputation: 4716
Can't speak for the Army, but the Air Force would require a waiver. You have to disclose it upfront and your recruiter will advise you. Expunged or not, if you LIE about it, or HIDE it, it will impact your security clearance. If selected, they WILL find it, and then they will consider your lack of integrity and they will revoke your selection. Talk to your recruiter.
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Old 07-09-2016, 07:13 AM
 
9,345 posts, read 15,780,146 times
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A criminal citation is an arrest. The military has access to expunged records. Make things easier for yourself and disclose it. I imagine you will need a waiver for any branch. All things considered, it is a minor offense and you bring valuable skill to the table.
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Old 07-09-2016, 08:29 AM
 
Location: The Commonwealth of Virginia
597 posts, read 310,514 times
Reputation: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akonyo View Post
Like Poncho said, if you lie and are discovered, you will be in trouble. It will be considered fraudulent enlistment. As an officer, this will be looked at more seriously and you will probably get a dismissal (which is the officer equivalent of a dishonorable discharge). Personally, I'd rather not get in at all than be dishonorably discharged.
Wrong. Dismissal is equivalent to a felony. An officer wouldn't be dismissed for failure to disclose a misdemeanor prior to joining. S/he might be ad sep'd, under "other than honorable" conditions, but not dismissed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
The military has access to expunged records.
You sure about that? I thought "expunged" meant it "never happened."

You need to do some research on what "expunged" means. If it's as if it never happened, I'd think seriously before disclosing it. Chance are they WON'T find out about it. Yes, talk to different recruiters and get their take on it. The military can afford to be very picky about who they recruit as officers.


--
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Old 07-09-2016, 08:47 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,182 posts, read 9,221,015 times
Reputation: 4716
Bill790, yes. The Military can see expunged records. So can the FBI. Regular employeers (like Target/Walmart) can not see expunged records, but the military/FBI background checks done for security clearance purposes CAN.

This happens all the time, where people think they are safe because it is expunged, and then they get burned when the offense is found during the processing of a security clearance.

Now, you look like a liar because we ask if you have EVER been cited or arrested. Even if it was expunged, you were cited or arrested, so if you say "no" you are a LIAR, and your clearance may be denied for LYING on official forms and during an official investigation.

One should not lie just because they think they can get away with it.

Google "Expunged Record + Security clearance" to read all manner of advice from lawyers to disclose it, and 100s of forums of upset people that got their clearances denied and military careers ruined because they got caught.

Regardless, even if you could hide it...it is still dishonest and it is still a lie, which makes you untrustworthy.

Let's also say that this time, they don't find it in the background check. What happens when they interview your mom, brother, or friends from high school and someone mentions the charge to the investigator because the investigator WILL ASK THEM. I'm sure you talked about it, and people in your life know it happened. You can still get caught, even if it doesn't come up in the background check. Are you going to brief everyone in your life to lie for you, and trust that they will when the intimidating men in suits with badges start asking questions?

Also, if getting a top secret clearance, they WILL check facebook, and forums like this, and there is an honest possibility they will discover this post, depending on how well you've hidden your username. People get caught all the time for social media postings.

It takes about $100,000 and up to a year to get a TS Clearance... they are VERY THOROUGH.

Last edited by dmarie123; 07-09-2016 at 09:05 AM..
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Old 07-09-2016, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Sugarmill Woods , FL
6,235 posts, read 5,384,329 times
Reputation: 13586
Expunged is like it never existed.
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Old 07-09-2016, 09:04 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,182 posts, read 9,221,015 times
Reputation: 4716
Expunged doesn't mean it didn't happen, expunged means it is HIDDEN and wiped away from the normal records so that it isn't seen in normal background checks. It doesn't mean it never happened. It doesn't change the course of history, it just erases it from normal background checks.

Saying it did not happen is a LIE. It did happen, and then it was expunged. It STILL HAPPENED.

How is this so hard to understand?

Here is a quote from a legal website
"Working for the Government

Many states, and the federal government, allow disclosure of an expunged record in limited situations in which the public good is balanced against the individual’s expectation that the expunged record will remain off-limits. For example, records might become available during background screening for government positions, such as court administrative jobs; or positions with a juvenile court or agency delivering juvenile services. Sealed records might be available to law enforcement in the course of their investigation of a possible crime, and to agencies that review handgun license applications."
Limits of Expunging a Criminal Record: Who Can Still See It? | Criminal Law

It is still accessesable to the US MILITARY and for Clearances.

From another source, "You may wish to note that page 10 of the SF-86 contains a statement which you sign authorizing release of ANY information about you to Security Clearance Investigators.

This means that investigators can access any and all information about you, including sealed records, juvenile records, expunged records, and medical records."
Security Clearance Secrets, Part 1, Page 3

From another source,

"You should be aware that the federal government doesn’t have to honor the expungement, nor does an expungement of a conviction necessarily relieve a person from having to disclose it in an application for public office or on some professional license applications, such as accountants, civil engineers, lawyers, nurses, and real estate brokers. An expungement generally does not relieve the person from the obligation to disclose the conviction in response to any direct question contained in any questionnaire or application for licensure by any state or local agency."
Expungement FAQs - The Papillon Foundation

From another "clearance applicants must list all applicable dismissed charges and convictions even if the record was sealed, expunged, or otherwise stricken from a state or local court record."
https://news.clearancejobs.com/2011/...ty-clearances/

The bad advice on this website to lie and hide information is going to cause people's lives to be ruined. Shaking my head.
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