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Old 07-11-2016, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
12,096 posts, read 11,005,348 times
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Go to the best Ophthalmologist in your area and get a 2nd opinion. It may be that your vision could be improved?
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:44 AM
 
17 posts, read 62,097 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer View Post
You need to stop trying to play 'doctor' and stick to what you know. A 'pale' optic nerve is not necessarily an indicator of any particular disease, or any disease at all. It is simply the appearance that the optic nerve takes on when it is no longer functioning, being damaged in one way or another. That damage *could* be caused by disease, or by injury as the OP claims, which is entirely possible.

I don't know why you are harping on the term 'disease', which you clearly aren't qualified to diagnose. The main issue, I think, is that the vision problem seems to be correctable, with the appropriate lens, even though the underlying cause is not correctable.

An optic nerve damaged by injury might never improve, however it will not suffer further deterioration either. In my case, my central vision is completely gone, not just 'blurry', and this cannot me corrected by either surgery or a lens. The extent of the damage can be observed and mapped, and I have had this done. Over more than 30 years I have not suffered any additional deterioration, and actually seems to have improved somewhat...though that might simply be a case of wishful thinking...I recently began having the damage re-mapped every year but it hasn't been long enough to discern changes, if any, and I don't have access to the mapping done at Ft. Sam so many years ago which would indicate the original extent of the damage.

I believe the OP's claim that his issue is caused by injury, because it happened to me. Trying to convince him that he has a disease rather than an injury is not helpful, and likely incorrect. What would be more helpful, is IF, in fact, external lenses will correct his vision to 20/20, you could find something in the regs, or point him in a direction that he might go in an attempt to get a waiver.

Indeed, the doc has my vision corrected to 20/20 with that underlying pale optic nerve. And it was with glasses. Meps has my record showing that my vision can be corrected to 20/20 in my right eye, my left eye is already at 20/20.
I know that i can be denied the waiver, what i want is that you guys explsin mrme how i can get it submitted since my recruiter is stopping me from talking to another recruiter. I promise, if the surgeon denied me, i wont never try again. Guys, recruiters, please, i know that everyone knows i can't get a waiver. But please i just want one recruiter to see my record, see what the doctor said. And give me just one chance to have my waiver sent. That is all i want. I have perfect color vision, but those who have optic nerve atrophy have trouble of vision color. I see fine at night. My blurry eye see at 20/70 corrected to 20/20. Please recruiter, please guys, tell me how i can get my waiver sent up to the chain. If i am denied, i stop dreaming. I promise. Thank you
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:05 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,284 posts, read 9,482,668 times
Reputation: 5036
OK, let me try again. Maybe I can be more helpful. I realize I'm not a doctor. Good point to Zymer.

Here's the deal as I see it, with the disclaimer that I'm not a doctor.

1. You have pale optic nerve. Pale optic nerve CAN cause blurry vision. You say it's not causing you blurry vision. How do you know? It will help you get a waiver if you get evaluated by an ophthalmologist who can provide an evaluation. The SG is going to wonder if your blurry vision could be linked to the nerve. So, get an ophthalmologist to give you an evaluation and that will clear up questions for the SG. Hopefully it will say you don't even have pale optic nerve. If you do, that can be a sign of glaucoma. But, the ophthalmologist can say "No signs of glaucoma" to clear up that question. Optic nerves can continue to die, causing more issues. The ophthalmologist can say something like, "I don't expect any further atrophy, nerve is stable." If you see an ophthalmologist and you get a favorable report, it can help get a waiver. Without the favorable report, I would bet a paycheck your waiver will be denied because there are too many maybes, what-ifs, and questions. Get those answered, and the SG will feel more comfortable signing off.

2. I'm concerned about the head injury. I said that a head injury would not cause blurry vision, and another postered jumped all over me for being wrong. Here's the deal. Head injuries don't cause blurry visions without MORE to the story. They can cause blurry vision if they cause damage to your optic nerve, or cause a TBI, or cause a concussion. There has to be a mechanism by which they cause the blurry vision. If the head injury damaged your optic nerve, thereby causing the blurry vision and pale nerve, that could be great news for you. It explains everything, and it should likely mean your conditions won't get worse. That could be a great thing to get an opthalmolgist or neurologist to conclude and I think it might help your case.

3. I know I'm not a doctor, but seriously, if you google head injury and blurry vision, the blurry vision comes from concussion or brain injury. You don't just get a bump on the head and then your vision goes blurry forever without underlying damange. Post concucssive syndrome with symptoms of longer than a month is a DQ (From DODI 6130). The SG MIGHT conclude that your blurry vision is linked to your head injury via concussion, and disqualify you for that. Also, Head Injury with any sensory defects (as in vision issues) is a DQ per DODI 6130. By your own words, you have sensory loss (blurry vision) from a head injury- thereby you have a second disqualifying condition. I know the doc at MEPS didn't write this as a DQ, but the SG could, because it's actually in the regulation. You'd actually be better off if the blurry vision was from the optic nerve, because you'd only have 1 disqualifying condition.

So, at this point, you have multiple things working against you. The optic nerve is written into the regulation as a DQ, and vision issues as the result of a head injury are also a DQ per the regulation that the department of defense uses.

The way you get a waiver is by making the SG feel safe. You have to make him feel like betting on you, and putting a signature on your forms... his personal signature, is not a risk.

You do that by getting medical records to explain the blurry vision (real evaluations, not just the MEPS doctor's opinion- he's not a specialist). If the vision is caused by a brain injury, are there other cognitive defects? Is it stable? If caused by the optic nerve, is it stable? Your opinion won't suffice. You need the opinion of specialized doctors. You do that by getting your optic nerve evaluated. If the SG feels that your conditions will never worsen and will never affect your ability to engage in military service, you MIGHT get a waiver, but you can't leave unanswered questions in his mind.

I hope this helps. I'm sorry if my previous answers weren't helpful. I didn't mean to be mean, I just don't want you getting your hopes up because I've seen this movie before.
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:14 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,284 posts, read 9,482,668 times
Reputation: 5036
I want to add one other thing... I'm not sure how the Army does these waivers, but for the Air Force, the recruiter doesn't do them.

For us, when MEPS disqualifies someone, MEPS sends the file directly to the SG and the recruiter doesn't do anything. This happens automatically, every time. I'm surprised it isn't automatic in the Army. I would have thought they would send the waiver regardless. We always do.

1. Are you sure the waiver hasn't been sent? It is possible it was sent and denied by the SG and the recruiter is explaining it wrong?

2. Try talking with the recruiter's supervisor to insist the waiver be sent. Threaten to file a Congressional complaint. Recruiters aren't allowed to make decisions on medical qualifications, so you might have some luck flexing your muscles. You're technically disqualified, so they don't have to help, but they probably will if they think you're going to file a complaint. If it fails, write a letter to your Congressman for help.

3. The recruiters would be more likely to be helpful if they thought you had a chance. If you got some good medical documents to clear-up the questions and concerns I posed above, they would be more likely to send the waiver because you would have improved your chances of having it approved.

4. Try talking with a local Navy or Air Force Recruiter. They may not want to spend time helping if you haven't gotten some additional medical evaluations. They can refuse to help as they're not already in the middle of working with you, are you are technically disqualified. However, I think you'll find them helpful.

5. If you were to talk to an Air Force recruiter, they would have your MEPS record pulled, the the recruiter never sees it, it just goes to the Air Force side of MEPS. Then, the Air Force side of MEPS could send the waiver to the Air Force.

6. Go to Army Careers: Ways to Serve in the Army | goarmy.com, start an online chat, and tell them that you have a recruiter who isn't helping with the medical waiver. Complaints on the website usually go to the top tier or leadership and roll down, thereby forcing your recruiter to take action.

Good luck!
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
5,598 posts, read 6,563,782 times
Reputation: 9979
OP- good stuff in those two posts there. It's on you to follow up and take advantage of it. If it still doesn't get you in, well, you know you did everything you could.

Curious though...how is one recruiter preventing you from talking to another?
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:40 PM
 
17 posts, read 62,097 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarie123 View Post
You are misunderstanding... The regulation you quoted is an Army Regulation for MEBs (MEBs are for people who are ALREADY in). Chapter 3 is for RETENTION, and you are quoting chapter 3. Chapter 2, which is for joining, says Optic Nerve Atrophy is a disqualification. PALE OPTIC NERVE MEANS OPTICAL NERVE ATROPHY.

Your logic makes zero sense. You keep saying the MEPS doctor said nothing was wrong... but he said you have Pale Optic Nerve. That is an optic nerve disorder that means atrophy. Both AR 40-501 chapter 2, and the parent regulation, DODI 6130 state ANY Optic Nerve Atrophy is a DQ.
If nothing was wrong with your eyes in the mind of MEPS, they would not have disqualified you.

You have had blurry vision since 5 years old, and have never seen an eye doctor, and you think this is normal? BLURRY VISION IS NOT NORMAL.


I was providing this information so you would please go to an eye doctor. You said you've never been to one, and I'm worried for you because you seem to be in denial (You keep saying nothing is wrong with your eyes, and that MEPS is saying nothing is wrong, yet MEPS clearly disqualified you).

You can have the waiver sent, but I want you to be emotionally prepared for it to be turned down. I've been doing this longer than you, and I have a little experience with it. Since you have an actual presentation of symptoms (life long blurry vision), I don't want you to get your hopes up. You've explained your blurry vision as the result of a head injury.... but that isn't medically sound. Your blurry vision is not from a head injury decades ago, I promise.

The Surgeon General who must approve the waiver does not always follow the recommendation of the MEPS doctor, so don't focus so much on the fact that a waiver was recommended, especially if the MEPS doctor isn't an eye doctor. The SG will confer with an eye doctor about your case before making a decision.

Yes, your file could be sent to the SG for a ruling on a waiver, but it can't be sent if the recruiter refuses to send it. Your recruiter doesn't believe you'll get the waiver and doesn't want to waste his time. I agree with him, unless you can get proof you don't have a pale optic nerve.

I do wish you luck, and I'm going to bow out of this conversation now so I'm clearly annoying you.

Look at this please. It is found in the beginning of chapter 2.


b. Application. This chapter prescribes the medical conditions and physical defects that are causes for rejection for
appointment, enlistment, and induction into military Service. Unless otherwise stipulated, the conditions listed in this
chapter are those that would be disqualifying by virtue of current diagnosis, or for which the candidate has a verified
past medical history. Other standards may be prescribed by DOD in the event of mobilization or a national emergency.
Those individuals found medically qualified based on the medical standards of chapter 2 that were in effect prior to
this publication will not be disqualified solely on the basis of the new standards. The designated waiver authorities may
grant waivers for selection or continuation in the programs described below, provided the individual meets the retention
standards of chapter 3. However, the standard in paragraph 2–30a will not be waived regardless of whether chapter 2
or chapter 3 standards are applied.
c. Scope. The standards of chapter 2 apply to—
(1) Applicants for appointment as commissioned or warrant officers in the Active Army and RC, including
appointment as a Soldier in the USAR or the ARNG/ARNGUS. This includes enlisted Soldier applicants for appoint-
ment as commissioned or warrant officers. (However, for officers of the ARNG/ARNGUS or USAR who apply for
appointment in the Active Army, the standards of chap 3 are applicable.)
(2) Applicants for enlistment in the Active Army, including the Delayed Entry/Future Soldier Program (delayed
entry program). For medical conditions or physical defects predating original enlistment, these standards are applicable
for enlistees’ first 6 months of active duty. (However, for enlisted Soldiers of the ARNG/ARNGUS or USAR who
apply for enlistment in the Active Army or who re-enter active duty for training (ADT) under the “split-training”
option, the standards of chapter 3 are applicable.)
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:53 PM
 
17 posts, read 62,097 times
Reputation: 15
My recruiter supervisor said that the waiver can't go forward without the opthalmologist opnion. That means my recruiter never sent it. And he added that i have to go to an opthalmologist and have a complete eye exam and send him the results.
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Old 07-12-2016, 05:59 PM
 
17 posts, read 62,097 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by deyamame View Post
Look at this please. It is found in the beginning of chapter 2.


b. Application. This chapter prescribes the medical conditions and physical defects that are causes for rejection for
appointment, enlistment, and induction into military Service. Unless otherwise stipulated, the conditions listed in this
chapter are those that would be disqualifying by virtue of current diagnosis, or for which the candidate has a verified
past medical history. Other standards may be prescribed by DOD in the event of mobilization or a national emergency.
Those individuals found medically qualified based on the medical standards of chapter 2 that were in effect prior to
this publication will not be disqualified solely on the basis of the new standards. The designated waiver authorities may
grant waivers for selection or continuation in the programs described below, provided the individual meets the retention
standards of chapter 3. However, the standard in paragraph 2–30a will not be waived regardless of whether chapter 2
or chapter 3 standards are applied.
c. Scope. The standards of chapter 2 apply to—
(1) Applicants for appointment as commissioned or warrant officers in the Active Army and RC, including
appointment as a Soldier in the USAR or the ARNG/ARNGUS. This includes enlisted Soldier applicants for appoint-
ment as commissioned or warrant officers. (However, for officers of the ARNG/ARNGUS or USAR who apply for
appointment in the Active Army, the standards of chap 3 are applicable.)
(2) Applicants for enlistment in the Active Army, including the Delayed Entry/Future Soldier Program (delayed
entry program). For medical conditions or physical defects predating original enlistment, these standards are applicable
for enlistees’ first 6 months of active duty. (However, for enlisted Soldiers of the ARNG/ARNGUS or USAR who
apply for enlistment in the Active Army or who re-enter active duty for training (ADT) under the “split-training”
option, the standards of chapter 3 are applicable.)

They said they can grant a waiver for selection if you meet the standarts stated in chapter 3. Which i already meet, because the doc at meps said that my eye does not have any disease. But i s heduled an appointment with an optometrist. I will do everything to join. But if i still can't, there are other things i can do.
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
12,096 posts, read 11,005,348 times
Reputation: 5964
Quote:
Originally Posted by deyamame View Post
My recruiter supervisor said that the waiver can't go forward without the opthalmologist opnion. That means my recruiter never sent it. And he added that i have to go to an opthalmologist and have a complete eye exam and send him the results.
Forgive the intrusion but that is actually the best idea to preserve your long term vision. If you tell me about where you're located I can find you a top doc to see.
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:59 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,284 posts, read 9,482,668 times
Reputation: 5036
Quote:
Originally Posted by deyamame View Post
My recruiter supervisor said that the waiver can't go forward without the opthalmologist opnion. That means my recruiter never sent it. And he added that i have to go to an opthalmologist and have a complete eye exam and send him the results.
I missed this. They absolutely CAN hold the waiver hostage. If they're asking for more info before sending the waiver, you'll have to get that additional info. You MAY be able to write a letter instead, if for example, you can't afford to go to an opthalmologist. The letter might help get the waiver submitted, but it wont' help get it approved.
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